Verbal vs. Chips - Mortar and Brick -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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Verbal vs. Chips

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05-23-2013 , 09:34 PM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

I made a weird mistake the other day and am wondering what should have been done (I corrected myself before any other action was taken and nobody objected so all's well except my curiosity).

I was the SB, and the action was limped to me. I announced, "call," and simultaneously threw out a raise.

Oops. Did I just raise or call?

05-23-2013 , 10:01 PM

Rawlz517

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,247

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Verbal is binding. If you said "call" before the chips hit the felt, it's a call.

05-24-2013 , 12:09 AM

JDK6390

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 572

Verbal always trumps. I've even seen times where chips hit the table, someone announces a different action than the chips would suggest, and the dealer and floor person both ruled the verbal in favor.

05-24-2013 , 09:57 AM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,857

RROP: Verbal is binding.

05-24-2013 , 05:21 PM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Thanks.

05-26-2013 , 05:12 AM

MoneyMike

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 52

Verbal. Just be weary about it if you say raise and do the one chip thing about how much the raise is, i.e. string bet if you mean more.

05-27-2013 , 08:09 AM

aftrglw

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDK6390

This can't possibly be true. In my experience it's always whatever happened first. Verbal is binding and trump chips provided that the verbal declaration is made prior or concurrently to the chips going in. If you put in a call in chips and then announce a verbal raise as your post suggests then it would be ruled a string raise in any casino I've ever been to. Likewise, if you put in enough to raise without saying you were calling, such as someone betting 30 and you throwing in 2 $25 chips, you'd be held to a raise... at least everywhere I've ever played.

05-27-2013 , 11:47 AM

JDiamond364

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by aftrglw

Likewise, if you put in enough to raise without saying you were calling, such as someone betting 30 and you throwing in 2 $25 chips, you'd be held to a raise... at least everywhere I've ever played.

I don't know where you have played, but this is completely wrong. This is a fine example of the oversized chip rule and must be held to a call unless the player says raise.

05-27-2013 , 03:14 PM

bortron5000

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 214

It's probably different if the actions come one after the other, as opposed to simultaneously. If you say call while throwing out too many chips, it's definitely a call. Otherwise I'd guess it's whatever happened first. Unless it's one oversized chip, which I believe counts as a call unless you say otherwise. Could be wrong about that last one.

I just try to state my intentions first, so then when I **** up the math everyone knows what's up

Sent from my DROIDX using 2+2 Forums

05-27-2013 , 03:33 PM

#10

lawdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

Verbal is binding, generally.

If a clear action comes before a verbal declaration, perhaps the clear action is binding.

And against players who are not douchebags, they let you clarify your action anyway rather than angling.

05-27-2013 , 06:34 PM

#11

PAhoser

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 496

In the case of simultaneous action, I'd rule with the verbal (and if the bets are grossly different, player will get a warning depending on what exactly happens).

Whatever you do first is your binding action - once your chips hit the felt, that's your bet regardless of what you say after that.

And yes, simply stating your action in one word (or more if you give the raise amount) will cure 99% of these issues.

05-28-2013 , 03:19 AM

#12

aftrglw

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDiamond364

I don't know where you have played, but this is completely wrong. This is a fine example of the oversized chip rule and must be held to a call unless the player says raise.

My experience is based off London and some Vegas cardrooms, primarily. That said, I stand by what I wrote. The oversize chip rule is for one chip and one chip only. So, if instead of throwing out two 25s the player had thrown a $100 chip without declaring a raise he'd only be allowed to call the $30 bet. The oversized chip rule does not apply to multiple chips... barring a verbal declaration to the contrary, as soon as a player throws more than one chip into the pot at a time the chips speak for themselves

05-28-2013 , 08:18 AM

#13

PAhoser

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 496

That's true unless removing any one chip creates an amount less than call, which is true in this case.

05-28-2013 , 10:03 AM

#14

aftrglw

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAhoser

That's true unless removing any one chip creates an amount less than call, which is true in this case.

I wasn't aware of that. I think it's good to announce what you want to doto avoid confusion anyway... especially if you're new to casinos. Thanks for the clarification.

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