Tap on the Glass

Call me a nit but I find this logic pretty awful. Sure my calling range is super wide, but I don't think calling any two cards is profitable.

He showed me the hand. It was definitely not a mistake.

He was winning with trash cards all night. He won a huge pot with 43o raised UTG, etc. But on one hand, he got AKs, and lost a big hand. So he decided he was only going to play total trash cards, and fold all good starting hands. Hence folding AA.

FWIW, when I left the table, he had a huge stack! LOL live poker.

LOL I'm speechless.

It is if you know what your doing. All you have to do is get someone to stack off to you 1 time and it makes it profitable. It also makes it instantly profitable if you don't want to look like the only nit at the table folding for $1. You make this fold and your killing your own action.

lol....again, please come sit at my table. You have no clue what you're talking about.

This post is so LOL.

Like 1/2 donks will actually remember than one time you folded for $1.

You know that guy at the party that makes an awful joke, but just doesn't realize how awful it is and thinks nobody really got it then keeps embarrassing himself by trying to explain it?

Yeah, just stop bro.

If you always complete the SB with the entire range of hands, you're going to lose money.

It's actually one of the only things they do remember. Really don't care what you clowns think. Please come sit at my table. I welcome you.

You're not going to lose money with all the hands in that range, right? If that's true, then it would never be correct to limp into a six-way pot with for an extra dollar. I think what you're saying is that you're going to lose money with a certain grouping of hands within the entire range of hands.

For that particular grouping, we can say with certainty that by folding, you will lose $1 per hand all day, every day. But if you add that grouping to your range, how much would you lose per hand then? Certainly it must be greater than $1, right? Would it be greater than $2?

You would have us believe that the player who folds for a dollar in the small blind in a six way limped pot is not "horrible", but is in fact "excellent" or at least "very good". Now lets consider the player who's in the BB and holding cards that are in the same "unplayable" grouping of hands. If the action limps to him, and he checks, what are his prospects? Is his expected loss greater than $2? If so, then tossing his cards into the muck rather than checking must be a sign that the player is either "excellent" "very good" "average" or at worst "not that bad". Right?

I think the issue is completing in this situation 100% of the time. Completing the very bottom of your range is going to be a losing proposition period.

Yes, sorry. I meant to say that you'd lose money with the entire range of hands you'd fold anyway if you weren't in the blinds, but that's dependent on your playing style obv.

I think the hand range playability comparison with an unraised pot in the BB is somewhat of a red herring. The situations are entirely different.

Play weak unsuited Aces, e.g., A7o. BTW, I see this all the time. The problem with this hand, and hands like A8, A9, is that even if you flop an Ace, you don't know where you stand, so you can't value bet it, so you can't win big pots. So, why play it? If you raise pre flop then C bet, and get raised, what do you do? If you limped late, and the Ace flops, and you get a bet in front of you, what do you do? IMO, the best flop you can see with A8o, assuming you don't flop a set, is an 8 with undercards, highly unlikely. IMO, this is a dangerous hand to even play for $1 in the SB. Will I do it? Sometimes. But I want to flop two pair or a set, or I'm done if any betting occurs, even with an Ace flopping.

I'd rather play 75o than A9o in the small blind, cause I can hit two pair, set, straight, or open end straight draw(which is the 1 I'm shooting for). Unlike flopping an Ace, an open end straight is a hand that could stack someone if hit, as they're unlikely to see it. And if an Ace hits the board as well, might win multiway pot.

Haha. Ok if you really think that the random 1/2 donk is going to notice then keep thinking that.

Also, lol @ "all you have to do is sack somebody once".

So "all" I have to do is flop two pair or better (roughly happens 2% of the time) and manage to get 100bbs from somebody in what will start out as a 5-6bb pot? That's "all" it takes?

We can debate this all day, but the post that started it was horrible. If you write somebody off as horrible just because they fold their SB, then lol at you.

They're the same in the sense that you're still playing bad cards in bad position with reverse implied odds not looking that great. What's different IMO is that in the small blind you are thrusting yourself into that situation by tossing in that extra dollar, while in the BB, you just kinda wind up seeing the flop whether you want to or not. I play in a room where you can win $250 for a high hand with just one in your hand. I play in another room where the bad beat jackpot is over $300k. So certainly that will expand one's range and that suited 3 gapper doesn't seem so bad. I was probably being a bit dramatic by saying that I write off as "horrible" the player who folds for a buck in an unraised six-handed pot. In truth, its probably not enough information to make a valid judgment one way or the other. But that fold does raise my antenna and makes me observe that person's play much more than I would if the player had just called off another buck.

LOL I retire from this thread. Too much face palming for me. The fold draws big time attention from everyone in the hand. They don't write you off as horrible... they write you off as a super tight nit. If you want that image then make this play.

Your a fish

What started this whole debate was a post ITT saying something like "whenever I see the SB fold for $1 I immediately write them off as horrible."

Right. Horrible was just a shorter way of saying scared-money, no-action, ABC nit. May not be the right term.

Since I consider myself to play somewhat aggressive overall. I'm ok being labeled a nit for folding T3o in the SB for $1.

Folding does not cause a $1 loss. Folding is neutral EV (0). Posting the sb in the first place is negative EV by $1.

things horrible players do....call other players "donkeys" or tell other players "nice suck out" everytime they get beat. It's like, no you jack, I hit top set on the flop, but this donkey will take those chippies.

I know you said you retired from this thread, but in the off-chance you're still following it, would you mind explaining this part for us noobs/nits? How often can you expect to stack someone with 72o in a limped pot, considering that the only "big" hands we ever make with it are crappy two pair, crappy trip, or a crappy boat. Only in the 3rd case are you at all likely to win someone's stack. You're also likely to get stacked by a better boat.

Then there are all the times we hit our "small blind special", try to build a big pot with it (putting our fishy customer on just top pair, lolz), and end up losing when the fish hits his kicker. Oh, then there's the times where we start building the pot, only to figure out that, whoops, the action suggests we're second best after all (it takes us longer to find this out on average because, oh that's right, we're in the worst position at the table). Unless of course you're just indiscriminately stacking off with your 2-pair or trips every time, regardless of the action. That's just compounding your preflop mistake by making a much bigger one postflop.

So again, please explain to us how the big pots we win with 72o (or 92o, or K4o for that matter) make up for all the times we check-fold, and all the times we hit two pair or better and still end up losing.

I don't even play 1/2 but you're most definitely a fish for saying you complete the SB with 27off. I don't even think anyone has brought up the rake considerations, either. I would love to have anyone in my game who completes any two in the SB. We could all just be getting trolled, though.