I don't think OP is cranky over the fact that people don't agree with him, i think he's cranky because people are veiwing the hand and the question from a totally different perspective than what he wanted to have an answer to. He's not posting this to have a chance to learn or to know about his own actions, he is ONLY interested in the floor ruling. And while the advice given in this thread are great, it doesn't seem to be the answers he was looking for. Also, this constant bashing will probably only just help to further alienate him, as it's only enforcing the feeling of being misunderstood.

One could argue that OP is asking the wrong question. Still, the answer to the question he really wanted to know in this thread seems to be: floor ruling was good, for two reasons: floors don't want to make rulings that put people to death in tournaments, and the blowing doesn't really require a lot of effort, and it's not even clear if villian wanted to succeed, AND it not really being that big of a deal anyway. After villian posting, it is clear that he wanted to succeed, though.

I actually have no opionion about floor ruling myself as nothing like this has ever happened to me. On a first guess I would've thought the punishment OP suggested would be correct.

Good post, okiol.

So I'm going to suggest two propositions:

1. The behavior described in the OP is absolutely the functional equivalent of reaching into the muck and flipping up a card.
2. Reaching into the muck and flipping up a card would, as a first offense, be punished with a warning.

Obviously the person who actually did it disagrees with #1, but his defense is legalistic and an insult to our intelligence. If you intentionally flipped up a card, you turned up a card, whether you did it with your hand or with air currents.

I'm not sure whether proposition #2 is right or not.

Expert angling for info ITT.

If you can think of a more well known tournament director not named Matt Savage or Jack Effel then I'm all ears.

Go back and read the first 10 posts ITT. He got answers, with explanations, to his question. Then he starting behaving like an a-hole.

asking me to reread something that i so obviously just read instead of rereading it yourself when you so obviously didn't reread it after my post is really annoying.

most of the answers i saw were great answers, some answers helped me. But many, many answers either didn't contain any explanation or were questioning the story or OP's reaction, rather than giving an answer to the question he wanted (wanted, not asked). Very, very few answers focused completely on judging the ruling, without mentioning anything else. If you know it, it's very easy to see how frustrated OP is.
If OP's #1 feeling while reading this thread is anything other than misunderstood, i'll be chocked. I don't think OP handled the situation very well either, but it's a mistake i've made myself several times before, too.

There is hope for humanity (and m & b) after all. This post is 1000% accurate. I got put up with being told "it doesn't matter" when it clearly does matter and was fed up with people telling me how I acted and how tilted I was when not only was it inaccurate it was irrelevant. I didn't want people coming in here telling me how to react or how to change my attitude, I wanted to know if the ruling was wrong. Did I come off as a d*ck? Maybe and I'm sorry if I did but 95% of the posts in this thread were about if I should care about what happen as opposed to what should've been the ruling.

Who else thinks op was the bubble boy knocked out by his villian in a later hand?

If it's already been answered, why answer it again? The main point here is not to put yourself in a situation to have to worry about this ruling in the first place. Rather than tell you how to deal with broken legs, we prefer helping you learn not to cross the street against the light. That makes more sense, doesn't it? Often on this forum the questions asked don't directly lead to the answers needed. We tend to go a level deeper.

But here you go:

No.

Yes.

A warning not to do it again, and that subsequent infractions will be handled more severely.

No.

You're welcome.

It still doesn't matter. The ruling happened, move on. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.


That's the answer to any ruling, even if it's not the "correct" ruling. Once it happens, it's done. That's the point here. It doesn't matter. It's in the past. Focus on the present and the future.

No, it's not. Or maybe it was. Nobody can say for certain, because we weren't there. It seems right to me. I don't put myself in that kind of position in the first place, so it's not a ruling I need to worry about for myself. I suggest you do the same. You can avoid having broken legs in the first place, and not have to worry about the proper ways to mend them.

So let's say you get the answer of, "Yes, that ruling was wrong."

What now? What does it change? What does it matter? What's the next move here?

For the life of me I cannot figure out what this has to do with my post nor what is has to do with the initial poster's inquiry about a reference to "Tab" instead of just saying "the tournament director" or "the floor person".

If all the thread was going to consist of was someone telling you what the technical, by-the-book ruling should have been, the thread would have your OP, one response, and then it would cease to exist. Wouldn't make for much of a website.

Very possible, not sure we can guess this specifically, but it is rather obvious by his wording about "40 left", "52k up top", and references to how badly it destroyed his image, that he busted sometime soon after this.

Prepare to be shocked, because his feeling is clearly over the top anger at responses that he figured would 100% back him, but didn't. He's overreacting to this to a degree which is almost incomprehensible. We're talking about one hole card in one hand shown to a group of randoms, over a full week later.

TBH, it isn't really. A lot of players think the floor and dealers are there to protect them. They expect if something happens that negatively affects them, they will get certain and instant justice. Those of us who have played for a long time know that the TD, floor and dealer are there to protect the house, not us primarily. If they protect us, that's great. However, long time players know that it doesn't always work that way. We don't count on it from long experience. As a result, we don't put ourselves in a position where something can be done to us.

If the villain in this thread had been the OP getting the one round penalty, the advice would have been, "yeah, unfair you had to sit out a round and get blinded off, but blowing a card over was stupid and you shouldn't be surprised you got a penalty this severe."

The moral is don't let the floor or TD decide your fate.

Exactly. It's like these silly cases where someone flung their hand into the middle of the table dramatically at showdown, and one of the cards landed face down barely touching the muck but clearly identifiable; and where the floor came out and ruled the hand dead because of Magical Muck Dust.

I mean, it's a stupid ruling, far more outrageous than any ruling could have been in this thread. But.... if the guy with the dead hand posts on here, and then gets upset because we agree he got robbed but tell him he should protect his hand*, what was the point of posting?

This case is a little different because most of us don't agree that the OP got robbed, but it hardly matters. OP is still missing the forest for the trees, because playing in a way to avoid drama means you don't end up in these situations.


=====
*Offer not valid for Washington state residents.

I had to reread this sentence like 5 times to get all the rereading straight

The hand happened with roughly 45 people left and 90 or so places paid (so Hero, Villain and this independent observer all managed a glorified mincash). Hero's other card was an 8.
Unfortunately, I got knocked out couple hands thereafter and did not see future hands between the Hero and the Villain (if any). Villain did outlast the Hero by a little bit, but I guess it is up to either of them to share which hand led to hero's eventual demise :-)

AC is pretty much infested with angle shooting dickwads and honestly even though Borgata is the nuts in a lot of ways I also feel like the tournament/poker room staff is kind of lacking the customer service department. So again, the real lesson here is to be aware of your environment and protect your hand and yourself from angling. I'm being serious here. I'm not trying to tell you that it was your fault this happened but if you are going to go AC you have go there well aware you are entering probably the nut worst place for respect and etiquette. Knowing this, you have to act accordingly.