The player to act is trying to concentrate on making a decision. Another player tries to talk to that player, makes comments about that player, whistles, sings, etc.

Examples of what he says: "where did you get this jacket?" or "o no another big decision" or immediately after action is on the player say "I Call clock!" and laugh like it's a joke. Or start whistling or singing. Or say: "nooo don't raise" or "o he's gonna do X again" or "watch out he's a pro" or just talk about the player with other players while the player is trying to focus. "He's this he's that blablabla" Or starts whistling or singing.

Usually, I've seen this done by a player who is also in the hand. Is there rules or etiquette about this?

Most rooms have a conduct and / or etiquette section in their rules.

In my room, for example, this player would be breaking multiple rules:
- Creating a disturbance
- Making statements that could unfairly influence the course of play
- OPTAH

As a floor I would pull this person to the side for a private discussion about why his actions are inappropriate. The disturbance is less serious, but I would definitely give him a warning for the rest.

Disclaimer: I am prejudiced against thinkers. Most people who regularly tank, especially at low takes games, think far more highly of themselves than they ought to.

1. I don't know if it's against the rules. It's probably in a rulebook. It probably varies by locale.

2. It's rude, no matter what the rules say.

3. That being said, even if it's rude, it's ruder IMO to be unnecessarily tanking all the time, and if being a little snarky one time permanently corrects the ruder behavior, I can understand. I've never done it, but I'm very sympathetic to seeing it done in some cases.

I'll just assume you were on the receiving end and further assume you suck but don't realize it. People do this because the tanker is sitting there wondering if bottom pair no kicker is good when JFC not even top pair top kicker is good.

Nobody ever does this when the tanker is a first time tanker who obviously flopped a set and is deciding whether villain has a rivered gutshot. They only do it when the tanker has a long history of ****ty tanking.

what callipygian said.

plus, 95% of the time, the tanker isn't recreating past hands and betting patterns, etc. they are just frozen and incapable of making a decision. "but what if he has a flush? but two pair is a good hand. but what if he has a flush? he may be bluffing! I don't wanna call with the worst hand. I don't wanna fold the best hand. But what if he has a flush?............................."

Do people normally give you a hard time at the table way more than you see it happen to anyone else? Sounds like you're garnering unwanted attention somehow?

Yes, I was on the receiving end. I am a "thinker" and a "tanker". I'm naturally just a slower thinker but usually the product of my thinking is better than that of "fast thinkers". Yes I take longer than table average and yes the superstars of poker that make up the $1/$2 player pool generally don't like it. In terms of rules - do I take "unreasonably long" and/or "slow down the game intentionally"? Solid no on both. I've never had the clock called on me only because the impatient know that it's ridiculous to call a clock when I'm tanking for 25 secs facing a $60 bet. So they just decide to harass me outside of the rules.

Honestly, I wish this wasn't an issue. I've tried to act fast but I make horrible decisions when I take less time than I need to. Another thing I noticed is - when I'm losing or doing average in terms of win/loss - no one cares. But when I'm winning big - that's when the hate is likely to start flowing.

Anyway this issue is not even unique to low stakes. I've seen Brunson give Lederer **** after L took less than 30 secs in a big pot on "Poker After Dark". And then there were prop bets on how long he took and some people thought he didn't take too long and some thought he did. I've seen people make negative comments about Ivey and Durr after they supposedly took too long on PAD. Bla bla bla. People are different. Some people need more time, some less. I think it's not fair for faster players to try to impose their will on slower players.

Honestly, sometimes yes. And I know why. I play slower than table average. Otherwise, I'm nice, respectful and don't do anything to piss anyone off. And it's not like I get "hate" every session I play. It happens maybe 2 sessions out of 10. Usually when I'm winning big.

If people are complaining about your tanking during at least 20% of your sessions, it means that your slow play is irritating others way more often than this.

You're like the guy who drives 10 mph under the speed limit on a single lane road and seems surprised when other drivers became frustrated.

You can't simultaneously complain about how bad they are and claim you need more time to think about decisions they put you in. If they're bad players they shouldn't be putting you in too many thought-provoking situations to begin with.

1. You should take all the time you need.
2. You should work on needing less time.

When do you start thinking about what to do? It should be a long time before the action is on you.

Preflop before the action comes to me I look at the action in front, count number of players and the pot, and look at player's reactions as they look at their cards. When action comes to me, I look at my cards. Then if I don't want to play those cards - I fold very quickly like anyone else. But if I do want to play them - I decide whether to limp or raise. And if I decide to raise I think of what raise would be optimal. So usually when I tank preflop it's when I'm about to put in a raise.

As for postflop, I may sometimes take 10-15 secs when I'm NOT facing a bet. Deciding whether to bet or not and if bet how much. And let's be honest $1/$2 players are impatient - they want action ASAP. They came to have fun and if you're tanking they're not having fun. They couldn't give more crap if you need to think. You're ruining their damn entertainment. And it's true. They're my customers and I'm pissing them off. It's bad business. But worse business is losing $$$ when I didn't take as much time as I needed

I gotta tell you I used to tank much worse than I do now. I've improved with more practice and experience. My arithmetics, etc have improved.

The thread turned from "what to do about harassing guy distracting me during a decision" to "how to not piss people off or how not to play slow".

And u know what? I'm fine with that. I'd much rather remove the root cause of the issue honestly.

That's good thinking. Because the only thing at the table you can control is you.

If you are not tanking unnecessarily, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But if every trivial decision takes an inordinate amount of time, then you cannot really complain about 1/2 players getting irritated by this.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the table talk / actions of other players is having an effect on your decision making process. If they are only bothered by the tanking when you are winning, then you are probably doing something right. The irritability/pressure on you to make a quick decision may be to pressure you into making a bad decision (where you would normally get to the right one eventually).

Ignore the irritable losers and worry about your own bottom line.

Okay, I'll try to be helpful, then.

1. Don't worry about the arithmetic. The error you introduce by incorrectly ranging your opponents grossly outweighs the error you make by sloppy math. It's like taking a bag of fruit to the grocery and arguing about whether it weighs 1.07 lb or 1.09 lb, when you didn't note whether you got the apples for $0.99/lb or the organic apples for $1.99/lb. 1/2 of $27 is $15, 2/3 of $36 is $20. That's close enough.

2. Use a starting hand chart preflop if you can't instantaneously make decisions. Starting hand charts are like training wheels on a bike - they slow down expert BMX bikers, but they keep kids from falling over. Decide whether you're more like a kid learning to ride a bike or an expert BMX biker.

3. Pre-think your default decision. If you're playing 1/2 correctly, you're going to be the most aggressive player at the table. Assume people are going to check to you, and decide what you're going to do. If you have a hand like JJ, decide whether you're going to bet an A-high flop, or a K-high flop, or an AK-high flop, etc.

4. Realize that close decisions are exactly that - close decisions. If mathematically it's +2.35 to raise and +2.27 to call, calling isn't a huge mistake. The closer the decision is, the more time you're going to be tempted to spend on it, and when you're really good at poker and able to tell the difference between +2.35 and +2.27, by all means spend the time to squeeze the extra 0.08 out.

5. Be okay with making mistakes. As a matter of fact, if it helps, intentionally make a mistake. Tommy Angelo writes about folding AA preflop, and how he did it once just to teach himself that he could fold anything. Even the best players in the world make mistakes. Work on yours one at a time. The 1/2 games are full of people who make multiple mistakes per hand, so if you only make one mistake per hand, you will crush the game.

6. Practice a lot. Run through your preflop charts while you're waiting for a table. Read and reply to hands posted in the forums. Put some money online and experiment with different strategies. Join session reviews. A lot of grey or unclear decisions (especially preflop) start clearing up as you play a **** ton of hands.

Thank you. I know most of what you mentioned. Let me give you an example. I'm UTG with KK. I'm the first to act.

1) I'm deciding if the table is wild enough to limp in and have a high chance of a raise behind so I can I re-pop. 3 secs. Before 3 secs are over the dumb**** to my left limps in out of turn. The person to the left of the df folds. I then say: "I didn't act yet". The df yells at me: "OK, act!" like I did something wrong and not him.

3) I decide to raise and now am thinking about what would be the right raise amount for THIS table. That's 4 more secs.

4) df yells: "what are you doing ? we're waiting!"

5) At that point my mind is clouded by his harassment and I decided to limp - wrong decision.

That's just an example of what happens. I really felt like telling the df to **** off and call the clock if he wants to. Instead I didn't say anything and he kept harassing me til the point where it negatively affected my decision making process.

This a good example of what happens. Can you make a good decision with someone hassling you?

Jesus christ 7 seconds for a preflop decision?! Those should be memorized and shouldn't take longer than a second.

Do you start over every hand with a blank mind?

He also doesn't look at his cards until it's his turn to act.

Purple, you should be ready to go. If the decision isn't automatic, take a few seconds to make a decision, but let's get moving. You're not playing the final table at the Main Event. Raimer says that he waits to look at his cards so he can have all the information with an open mind (and to, like, not fall in love with pocket queens before a bunch of action occurs in front of him where he starts licking his chops about winning money instead of thinking about the realistic possibility that three raises in front of him does not bode well for his hand). But honestly, if you're taking so long to make decisions because things aren't automatic yet, you're not going to be missing much of anything by looking at your cards before it's your turn to act so you can start planning.

If you're UTG, you've had about 30 seconds to think while the dealer was dealing cards.

Slow dealer. ;-)

A high percentage of hands should take no time at all.


A low percentage of hands might take 5-10 seconds.

Well unfortunately I would be missing the number of players in the hand in front and pot size. I'm counting that while people are looking at their cards/acting in front. If I don't then I have to count when the action's on me and trust me that looks even more ******ed than what I'm doing now - action's on me but for some reason I'm looking around the table

There is all kinds of shady stuff going on in almost every game. There are different levels, and different opinions as to what is egregious. Very few things that everyone agree on.

Facepalm