Quote:
Originally Posted by purplebliss
Showdown. Player A says "I got Aces full" but doesn't show his cards. Player B mucks without seeing Player A's cards. If in this case Player A did not have Aces full and purposefully mislead (as opposed to misreading his hand) then I got the following questions:
1) This is an angleshoot, right? [Actually, it's cheating.]
2) Is this actually against the rules? [Yes. See below.]
3) What happens if the guy gets caught? Meaning Player B or the dealer or the table insist on seeing Player A's cards and they're nowhere near what Player A announced. What's typically the penalty for that (assuming that's against the rules)? [In a well-run room, he will forfeit the pot and may be be asked to leave. But in many rooms, it's more likely he will get the pot if the other guy's cards can't be retrieved, but be warned not to do it again. See below.]
4) Have you seen people trying to do that? [Yes, but rarely. Most rooms have either the IWTSTH rule, or the "Both cards must be shown to claim pot (if hands were called)" rule, both of which tend to discourage people from trying this.]
First of all, here's RRoP:
"THE SHOWDOWN...:
..2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding,
deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and
may result in forfeiture of the pot. ..."
That's the rule. But note that it says "deliberately miscalling" "may" result in forfeiture of the pot.
So these are situations which require the floor to exercise some judgment (or refuse to).
The big problem with the whole thing is establishing intent. If a player miscalls his hand, but it's close to what he called, it's impossible to be confident that he did it "deliberately", especially if it's the first time. In these cases, normally, if the other player's winning) hand can be retrieved, it (usually) will be considered live and will get the pot, assuming competent floor (which is a big assumption).
But if the other guy's untabled hand is irretrievably lost in the muck (or if the floor is stubbornly rigid about applying rules on killing hands), then (usually) it's just too bad, and he should have protected his hand (as in Rule above) until he actually saw the announced cards.
Nonetheless, if the miscall was so far away from the actual hand that it could hardly have been accidental, or if miscalls are happening more than once, floors will (or should) be much tougher about killing hands, warnings and ejections, etc.
Bottom line: regardless of what the other guy announces, don't throw your cards away until you've actually seen his hand.
