Hi Everyone,

I am trying to keep track of my poker sessions (income, hours, tips, etc). Can anyone please comment, if it's also important to keep track of the rake paid throughout the session?

I don't think it's too important as that is not something you're able to really change. Also, your sample size probably won't be enough for you to be able to distinguish whether or not the rake takes you from a winning player to a losing player.

That said, if you want to keep track of rake, just keep track of how many pots you win in a night and take it out of that.

Tips, IMHO, don't need to be tracked either. Tipping is part of the "cost of doing business". Obviously, I could be wrong, but I don't track tips.

Depends on why you're tracking.

Tips and rake may be interesting things to track, but for reasons other than finding out whether you're winning or not.

I track tips (Poker Income makes really easy so I might not if it was more time consuming), but I feel it better helps you understand your WR. I tip more some sessions/dealers than others so if you're not consistent with your tipping it might be a good idea to track it.

I do not track rake as that's never going to change...you might play a few bigger/smaller pots per hour than others, but that will all even out. It wont do anything for you WR to track rake.

The subject is about rake, which I don't keep track of since it doesn't mean much. If this turns into a tipping thread, I'm locking it.

-rake: no.
-food: no.
-dealer tips: yes.

Rake might matter if you play at different casinos with different rate structures. But, I don't find it that useful.
Food, I figure I have to eat regardless if I play or not.
Tips: I like to gauge how much money I'm draining down the hole that I don't have to.

On days when I'm bored, I also like to keep track of:
-number of hands dealt.
-number of pots I win.
-VPIP, PFR. WTSD

Being aware of how much you pay in rake can be constructive, but there's no reason to track it meticulously. Just estimating it is enough.

It's good to be aware of how much you're paying in rake so you can make logical game-selection decisions. You might think "I'm making $15/hr when the game is good, this game is not so good but even if I can only win half as much that's fine", but if you're paying $12/hr rake and so you're actually beating a good game for $27/hr to take home $15, you can see how easily losing a tiny bit of edge can tank your winrate.

Alas you cannot control the rake (or deduct it on taxes ) so there's no need to track how much of it you pay.

The casino tracks what you pay in rake in theory. If you ask i'm sure they can pull it up.

Food, I wouldn't bother with cause it's not a direct correlation to your poker wins or losses.

Tips, Figure an average /hour and guesstimate. Trying to nail down specifics on all these things will make you lose focus on what you should be paying attention to.

Huh?

This.

And if you have no control over it, what's the point of tracking it?

Saying that you're not going to track rake or tips is like saying that you're only going to track your gross revenue, and not figure out what your expenses are.

That's a crappy way to run a business.


Hey, the rake over there is $1 less per hand, but I'd have to drive an extra hour (total) a day. [Or the game is timed, or across the border tipping is verboten.] I wonder what that would mean to my bottom line. Shame the advice I got was to ignore it.

If he's already tracking his sessions he already is getting his total win or loss, including rake and tips. So the costs of business are already included.

I use the Poker Journal app on my iPhone. That makes it very easy to track everything. Every time I win a pot, I tip the dealer $1 and hit the "Toke" button on the app. That way I know exactly how many pots I win, and at the same time, how much I've paid in tokes and rake.

It's easy to do, so why not?

I look at them as factors I cannot control. I tip a very standard amount; if I varied my tip amount, perhaps that would change.

The poker tracking app I have for my android device chews up battery when timing a session, so I don't keep it open and just log the info after the session. If it weren't such a battery drain, I would use it differently. Heck, a great app would let me track the hands in real-time too, but mine doesn't. I'm open to suggestions on apps to try.

Oh wait, if this turns into a "which app is better" thread, it might get locked.

If you take your player card up to the front and ask. They keep track of your hours in each specific game, within that information is your theoretical rake. At least at borgata, but i'd be confident the information is generally the same at most casinos. It gives them a "player worth" that is generated directly from the rake they assume you're generating.

It might not be exact to the dollar, but, as I mentioned previous, focusing on those microscopic details will make you lose focus of the big goals.

Sound advice.

Was hoping someone else would post this so I didn't have to, but there's at least one reason to track rake and tips: planning to take shots.

In low limit games, rake and tips may be so high that a game becomes unwinnable, even though you handily beat the opponents. Moving up may then mean procuring and external bankroll and winrate aside convince yourself that you're good enough to move up. And for that you will need your rakeless win rate to estimate whether the next level up can be beaten.

While I don't disagree with you, he isn't tracking gross revenue, he's tracking his net revenue. You're the one telling him to figure out his gross revenue.

I don't disagree with the advice, and if you log enough sessions at different card rooms with different rake structures, it should be pretty easy to see which game generates a better net profit.

I play at a cardroom with timed rake, so I find it pretty easy to track. I don't keep track of tips.

Also, for those that are tracking tips, are you also tracking tips to the waitress bringing you drinks? Just curious.

I'm simply saying he needs to know both numbers if he's going to treat poker like a business.