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Old 10-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #1
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Three deuces butchered - stud 8

PokerStars, 7 Stud H/L Limit - $0.10/$0.20 ($0.02 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

Seat 3: $4.41 (44 bb)
Seat 4: $9.77 (98 bb)
Seat 5: $8.99 (90 bb)
Seat 6: $7.83 (78 bb)
Seat 7: $16.14 (161 bb)
Seat 1: $4.22 (42 bb)
Seat 2 (Hero): $9.74 (97 bb)

Third Street: ($0.14) Hero is in Seat 2
2 7 2 Hero bring-in $0.04____Hero calls $0.06
Xx Xx Q UTG folds
Xx Xx 9 UTG+1 folds
Xx Xx Q MP calls $0.04____MP calls $0.06
Xx Xx 3 MP+1 folds
Xx Xx J CO folds
Xx Xx 5 BTN raises to $0.10

Fourth Street: ($0.44) (3 players)
2 7 2 2 Hero bets $0.10____Hero calls $0.10
Xx Xx Q 4 MP calls $0.10____MP calls $0.10
Xx Xx 5 A BTN raises to $0.20

Fifth Street: ($1.04) (3 players)
2 7 2 2 5 Hero bets $0.20____Hero calls $0.20
Xx Xx Q 4 7 MP calls $0.20____MP calls $0.20
Xx Xx 5 A 8 BTN raises to $0.40

Sixth Street: ($2.24) (3 players)
Xx Xx 5 A 8 A BTN bets $0.20
2 7 2 2 5 8 Hero calls $0.20
Xx Xx Q 4 7 9 MP folds

Seventh Street: ($2.64) (2 players)
Xx Xx 5 A 8 A Xx BTN bets $0.20
2 7 2 2 5 8 J Hero calls $0.20

Tell me what I did good, what I did bad and what was plain ugly

I'll let you comment first and then I'll come back with my street by street thought process
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:50 PM   #2
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

I hate leading on 4th. The guy caught 5A you should never be betting or raising. This is a perfect time to slowplay since he should always end up betting 5th. I would ch/r 5th for sure! 6th and 7th just ch/c unless you fill up
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:39 PM   #3
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
I hate leading on 4th. The guy caught 5A you should never be betting or raising. This is a perfect time to slowplay since he should always end up betting 5th. I would ch/r 5th for sure! 6th and 7th just ch/c unless you fill up
I agree. If he is going either high or low, the Ace helped him. You could totally set up a check raise on 5th. And yes, if that doesn't take it right there, check-call 6 and 7.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:00 PM   #4
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

Paging Ray Zee or Limitbreak!!!!!!!
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:53 PM   #5
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
I hate leading on 4th. The guy caught 5A you should never be betting or raising. This is a perfect time to slowplay since he should always end up betting 5th. I would ch/r 5th for sure! 6th and 7th just ch/c unless you fill up
Agree too.
You have three key cards to block his possible wheel or a good low draw and he's surely going to bet.
But the action on 5th depends on which cards you and "main" villain will get, you won't get much value trying to c/r a 2-2-low board vs a 5-A-brick board. So it depends. Also knowing that a third player in the middle having a Q on door stays in the hand.

Say instead of having on 4th your (2-7)2-2 hand you have (7-7)2-2, what's the best action to take?
I'm just asking.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:48 PM   #6
monikrazy
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

Leading 5th seems worse than leading 4th, leading 4th while not standard has some good aspects, including a higher chance of the 3rd player calling multiple bets, the biggest problem with leading 4th is leading into strong boards is still generally a bad idea.

Anyone have any thoughts on whether it is a good idea to put in a 3rd bet vs the raise on 4th?
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:14 AM   #7
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

I can get the check raise if it were head up, but do you really want to push the third guy out of this hand?
Especially when he may be drawing close to dead, with a Q and a ton of diamonds out.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:05 AM   #8
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

I like your bet on 4th, you made sure one goes in, and you didnt jam-out the other high-hand that has little or no equity.

On 5th, again, I like the lead, but now 3-bet, especially since MP could possibly be re-drawing to a better low than xx5A8.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:46 AM   #9
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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I like your bet on 4th, you made sure one goes in, and you didnt jam-out the other high-hand that has little or no equity.

On 5th, again, I like the lead, but now 3-bet, especially since MP could possibly be re-drawing to a better low than xx5A8.
A bet is going in. He has A5 showing. You just have to play board vs board and check
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:54 AM   #10
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
A bet is going in. He has A5 showing. You just have to play board vs board and check
It's not 100%. Many of JJ/KK underneath have checked through.

Yet, that's not the real reason, the real reason is to trap the middle player w/little equity for multiple bets.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:10 PM   #11
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
It's not 100%. Many of JJ/KK underneath have checked through.

Yet, that's not the real reason, the real reason is to trap the middle player w/little equity for multiple bets.
I suppose that at the stakes that this hand takes place people might check some hands with A5. They shouldn't.
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:45 PM   #12
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

your hand throughout can get half or all of it. i would push harder early yet not be dismayed on 6th as you still can get the low if he is high or even win both ways.

i think i raise again on 4th and bet on 5th to get the dead money guy. im not scared at all on fifth street.

however you wont find me in this pot as i would have folded on 3 with a low card raise and a high card over me with a small split pair.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:53 AM   #13
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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your hand throughout can get half or all of it. i would push harder early yet not be dismayed on 6th as you still can get the low if he is high or even win both ways.

i think i raise again on 4th and bet on 5th to get the dead money guy. im not scared at all on fifth street.

however you wont find me in this pot as i would have folded on 3 with a low card raise and a high card over me with a small split pair.
The 5 is in a steal position, the Q is deadish and hasn’t shown strength, and you are getting a good price. I think peeling third is fine. You could even consider a raise if you thought it would knock out the queen
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Old 10-24-2018, 11:30 AM   #14
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

yea if played with a raise. no way am i calling with it. best to dump it overall. especially if the players are callers that hand cant make money any way you play it most times. and aces are live. that hurts you here.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:55 PM   #15
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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yea if played with a raise. no way am i calling with it. best to dump it overall. especially if the players are callers that hand cant make money any way you play it most times. and aces are live. that hurts you here.
so it is irrelevant that i am in the bring in?

had i not been in the bring in i would have folded in this particular situation. in most other cases i would only play as a steal.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:04 PM   #16
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

it is just that your hand cant really get good enough quickly enough to get past being run off the pot on 4th or 5th.

you caught as good as you could and had a scary board but still didnt have clear sailing.

you do get in cheaper and get better odds but odds for what if you cant really steal it on 4th or 5th unless you hit great and he hits badly.

against a passive player who will make mistakes i would play. but then against one of those i might play anything.

and generally if its a player who would have nothing and be stealing that is usually a good player so you are starting off on the wrong foot here.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
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It's not 100%. Many of JJ/KK underneath have checked through.

Yet, that's not the real reason, the real reason is to trap the middle player w/little equity for multiple bets.
I mean if the Q4 is going to take bets to the face in this spot it doesn't really matter what you do, you'll make money. But against anyone competent check 4th is way better, the Q4 should instantly fold when we lead with the 5A behind him. Totally agree with Rolleduptrips we need to slowplay this spot.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:27 PM   #18
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

I like leading fourth because it protects you when you just have a pair of twos. If Q4 will peel if it goes check/check/bet/call/call, but fold if you bet, betting is generally better with your whole range because it's a big win when Queens fold when you have one pair. I suppose at this level you may not have to be worried about protecting your range, but at this level, the Q is also more likely to just click call any if it goes bet/call/raise/??.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:29 PM   #19
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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I like leading fourth because it protects you when you just have a pair of twos. If Q4 will peel if it goes check/check/bet/call/call, but fold if you bet, betting is generally better with your whole range because it's a big win when Queens fold when you have one pair. I suppose at this level you may not have to be worried about protecting your range, but at this level, the Q is also more likely to just click call any if it goes bet/call/raise/??.
Do you really want to protect 3722
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:16 AM   #20
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

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Originally Posted by ChipsAhoya View Post
I like leading fourth because it protects you when you just have a pair of twos. If Q4 will peel if it goes check/check/bet/call/call, but fold if you bet, betting is generally better with your whole range because it's a big win when Queens fold when you have one pair. I suppose at this level you may not have to be worried about protecting your range, but at this level, the Q is also more likely to just click call any if it goes bet/call/raise/??.
It's kinda tough to decide what level to analyze the hand on when a Queen limps in here. Sure I agree we want queens to fold, I would think they may fold anyway if we check call (but I really don't know what someone who would limp it in in that spot is very likely to do). I just think the A5 is benefitting way more than us when any bets go in so lets preserve our options.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:59 PM   #21
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

Great thread, I love this forum, I have nothing to add.

Thank you, all.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:31 AM   #22
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: Three deuces butchered - stud 8

My basic thoughts were:
3rd - the pot odds... call
4th - i didnt want people to fold behind me to two bets if i checkraised so i bet out immediately. when i got raised by a5 i am not concerned about being behind, i only want to get the maximum bets into the pot whilst keeping people who have almost no shot in the hand, so i call and get the "queens" to stay in. i didn't wanna 3 bet because again thats 2 bets to the face for the queens and he might fold.
5th - pretty much the same thinking, but i agree with joe tall i should have 3 bet because now the pot is bigger the queens are more tied in and the A58 is gonna make it 4 and thats really nice. i'm not really bothered about getting freerolled. even though i probably am getting freerolled, it comes good so infrequently i am more interested in getting the biggest half pot i can and i am better than 2 to 1 to win the high.
6th - meh/puke
7th - puke/meh
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