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Old 05-08-2020, 12:47 PM   #1
zoogenhiem
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stud8 steal gets weird

HU part of a mix online, 1/8th ante

3rd: xx2 bi, I complete (25)Q, bi calls
4th: I check (25)Q4o, xx27o bets, I call
5th: xx27Qr bets, I call (25)Q43 (now with 3 diamonds)
6th: xx27Q6r bets, I call (25)Q439
7th: xx27Q6x bets, hero with (25)Q439(4)?

Result:
Spoiler:
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Old 05-08-2020, 01:03 PM   #2
ninefingershuffle
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

I’d raise 5th if I opened this hand. Rest looks fine and call the river.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:39 PM   #3
electrical
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

I disagree with a raise on 5th. There are a lot of cards you can catch that don't materially improve your hand but make you high board on Six, and then you have to act first. It's always better to make semi-bluff equity raises when you can't fall out of position without improving your hand enough to want to bet it.

If you have a hand like that, say you have precisely the same hand but villain is showing a King instead of a Queen for high board, then almost any card that makes you high also gives you a reason to bet. If you don't fall high you can just take a free card on Six and get to see the river for nothing, but when you improve you can rep a stronger range by leading with initiative.

I think just calling down, calling with a small pair on the end are fine. You're not going to get him to fold any low hand with a Queen flapping in the breeze so there's no reason to bluff raise.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:13 PM   #4
ninefingershuffle
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
I disagree with a raise on 5th. There are a lot of cards you can catch that don't materially improve your hand but make you high board on Six, and then you have to act first. It's always better to make semi-bluff equity raises when you can't fall out of position without improving your hand enough to want to bet it.

If you have a hand like that, say you have precisely the same hand but villain is showing a King instead of a Queen for high board, then almost any card that makes you high also gives you a reason to bet. If you don't fall high you can just take a free card on Six and get to see the river for nothing, but when you improve you can rep a stronger range by leading with initiative.

I think just calling down, calling with a small pair on the end are fine. You're not going to get him to fold any low hand with a Queen flapping in the breeze so there's no reason to bluff raise.
His most likely hand is a shitty low draw and no high and you want to set him up to fold his half.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:41 PM   #5
electrical
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
His most likely hand is a shitty low draw and no high and you want to set him up to fold his half.
Whatever it is, he called the open and has been betting every street. He's not folding it to a raise, and he's not folding it if you raise and bet one more street. For a credible value line, you'll need to raise and commit to betting turn and river, and the only hands you're getting him to fold are a couple of slightly-better no-pair hands. Definitely not worth burning them up.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:35 PM   #6
ninefingershuffle
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Whatever it is, he called the open and has been betting every street. He's not folding it to a raise, and he's not folding it if you raise and bet one more street. For a credible value line, you'll need to raise and commit to betting turn and river, and the only hands you're getting him to fold are a couple of slightly-better no-pair hands. Definitely not worth burning them up.
Almost every card is good for our hand. We are drawing smooth for a low and almost any card gives us a great high versus his range.
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Old 05-10-2020, 01:12 PM   #7
electrical
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
Almost every card is good for our hand. We are drawing smooth for a low and almost any card gives us a great high versus his range.
Sorry, you are nuts. We end up with some crappy no-pair or a tiny pair most of the time for hi, and a lot of the hands we need to call will get scooped. I'm not making a bigger pot here just for the fun of saying "raise."
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:02 AM   #8
RolldUpTrips
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Couldn't disagree with you more, electrical. This is a slam-dunk raise on 5. Remember that this hand started HU and he didn't 2b pre. His range is not all that strong and we have 2345. Sure it sucks when we catch a king on 6, but this isn't stud hi, either; if only one of you catches good on 6, initiative from 5 won't matter anyway
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:36 AM   #9
ninefingershuffle
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
I disagree with a raise on 5th. There are a lot of cards you can catch that don't materially improve your hand but make you high board on Six, and then you have to act first. It's always better to make semi-bluff equity raises when you can't fall out of position without improving your hand enough to want to bet it.

If you have a hand like that, say you have precisely the same hand but villain is showing a King instead of a Queen for high board, then almost any card that makes you high also gives you a reason to bet. If you don't fall high you can just take a free card on Six and get to see the river for nothing, but when you improve you can rep a stronger range by leading with initiative.

I think just calling down, calling with a small pair on the end are fine. You're not going to get him to fold any low hand with a Queen flapping in the breeze so there's no reason to bluff raise.
Any card ace through 8 gives you a pair a straight or a low, all of which is likely good for half. Q is good too. Only bad cards are 9tj. Iím always looking for ways to win the whole pot and clicking call call is just hoping to hit to win.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:28 PM   #10
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

On 5th I do the Humberto Benes thumbs up and put in the extra chips
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:04 PM   #11
electrical
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

I just ran it on PPT, very surprised to see we are hovering around 60-65% with most of villain's holdings. My instincts were off, sorry. Raise away.

Ace: great card. Six: Great card. Seven: Great card. Queen: pretty good card. Anything else is either a drag or nothing to write home about, but we don't need that much to have a riase HU.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:59 PM   #12
Phat Mack
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Re: stud8 steal gets weird

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
I disagree with a raise on 5th. There are a lot of cards you can catch that don't materially improve your hand but make you high board on Six, and then you have to act first. It's always better to make semi-bluff equity raises when you can't fall out of position without improving your hand enough to want to bet it.

If you have a hand like that, say you have precisely the same hand but villain is showing a King instead of a Queen for high board, then almost any card that makes you high also gives you a reason to bet. If you don't fall high you can just take a free card on Six and get to see the river for nothing, but when you improve you can rep a stronger range by leading with initiative.

I think just calling down, calling with a small pair on the end are fine. You're not going to get him to fold any low hand with a Queen flapping in the breeze so there's no reason to bluff raise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
I just ran it on PPT, very surprised to see we are hovering around 60-65% with most of villain's holdings. My instincts were off, sorry. Raise away.

Ace: great card. Six: Great card. Seven: Great card. Queen: pretty good card. Anything else is either a drag or nothing to write home about, but we don't need that much to have a riase HU.
I raise 5th but I thought your first comment was pure genius. Our hand is just too strong to risk getting stuck by giving up shape on 6th. In this case we had the numbers, but it's always something to think about in these situations.
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