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Old 12-09-2018, 03:29 PM   #1
PocketKings
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Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

7 players at table.

On 3rd:

2 brings in. Hero completes UTG with T2J.

5 fold next. 3 and 6 call. 6, 5:heart, and bring-in fold.


On 4th:

(XX)6K
T2JQ
(XX)3T

Now (XX)6K leads and shall Hero continue?
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:21 PM   #2
Munga30
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

It would be helpful to know the antes and bi relative to the stakes.

I like 3rd.

I think we can call 4th as we should be able to read the spades well on 5h and 6th (it's likely spades and unlikely split Kings or sixes and we have overs/block a lot of pockets) and xx3T will often just fold for one bet.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:35 PM   #3
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Peel and fold a lot of Fifths.

When you go hi with A, K, Q, J you can just fire Fifth & barrel with a lot of equity. You should not peel cards 3-7 unless , peel Deuces and anything 8 or higher.
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:07 PM   #4
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Is third street standard? I get that the hands behind you all look weak, but really all you have is jack high and two cards of your suit dead. I don't play much stud high but I would have folded without thinking too hard.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:41 AM   #5
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Is third street standard?
Utterly.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:55 AM   #6
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Utterly.
Even if it's a fairly low ante and looseish game?
What's the worst similar hand you'd open here?
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Old 12-10-2018, 02:45 AM   #7
RolldUpTrips
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Very standard open and very standard continue on 4
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:04 AM   #8
electrical
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Even if it's a fairly low ante and looseish game?
What's the worst similar hand you'd open here?
We have a overcards to the board, our backdoor straight cards are live and we have a three-flush with only two of our suit out. This is not a marginal open, this is a that's-what-I-call-a-homeboy open.

It's hard to say precisely the worst hand I'd open since the value of a starting hand is so dependent on cards seen, but a hand like this is not a grey area. With multiple overcards yet to act and two more clubs out I wouldn't open it.

Off the top of my head with no metagame, with 235566 out I wouldn't open hands like 552, 665, 447. Small pairs with secondary equity badly compromised. Would definitely open three high connected airbags, QJT etc suited or not, would open 89T with a two-suit.
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Old 12-14-2018, 03:43 AM   #9
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

fold on 4th as he lead into two high cards that had raised going in. he has to have something and you have nothing. and his hand will be confusing to read.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:56 PM   #10
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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fold on 4th as he lead into two high cards that had raised going in. he has to have something and you have nothing. and his hand will be confusing to read.
Agree with this. I especially hate that suited king. If we hit our best case, we are unable to maximize value, unless our possible flush contains an Ace, King, or possibly both.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:40 AM   #11
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Agree with this. I especially hate that suited king. If we hit our best case, we are unable to maximize value, unless our possible flush contains an Ace, King, or possibly both.
Pot is huge. It's WAY too nitty to fold now getting 6:1
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:00 AM   #12
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
Pot is huge. It's WAY too nitty to fold now getting 6:1
3 small bets is a huge pot?

Of course, plus the antes, but we don't even know how big those are.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:15 AM   #13
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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3 small bets is a huge pot?

Of course, plus the antes, but we don't even know how big those are.
Is it not 4-ways plus the bet plus the antes?
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:47 AM   #14
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Is it not 4-ways plus the bet plus the antes?
No, it is three way. Three players remain on fourth.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #15
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Clear open, Iíd even raise with one overcard behind me but with two Iíd just fold

Iím somewhat neutral about 4th, getting good odds but we are in a sense drawing dominated against what he has and thus RIO.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:50 PM   #16
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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No, it is three way. Three players remain on fourth.
My fault. Misread it. Ok so you're getting 5:1 with QJT and 3 clubs. No way I'm folding
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:50 PM   #17
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
Is third street standard? I get that the hands behind you all look weak, but really all you have is jack high and two cards of your suit dead. I don't play much stud high but I would have folded without thinking too hard.
Am I the only one who thinks a smooth call is better than a raise on 3rd? With the clubs being out, pair cards out, and only a Jack high, I would think calling would be better. The point of a raise is to thin the field and make a larger pot. While you certainly want a larger pot, I think you would be getting your money in better with more people limping, especially since your flush likelihood is diminished with a couple of clubs being dead.

Am I wrong?
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:03 AM   #18
Ray Zee
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

it depends on the game and stakes. most higher stakes games the raise should take it down or get it head up almost all times.
in smaller games where they call with small pairs it may be better to limp and see what happens.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:00 PM   #19
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
it depends on the game and stakes. most higher stakes games the raise should take it down or get it head up almost all times.
in smaller games where they call with small pairs it may be better to limp and see what happens.
First of all, Ray Zee it is a pleasure. I refer to 7 Card Stud for Advanced Players often.

Regarding my post, let's say the game is $20-40 with a $3 ante and $5 bring in, and the players are mostly reasonable.

Aside from raising to try to take down the pot right then and there, what would be the real benefit of raising when you have a largely speculative hand? Two clubs are out, no pairs, no three-straight. I would think that smooth calling the bring-in would be a better value play than raising and getting the hand heads up. Smooth calling 3rd street and the almost inevitable taking one off on 4th street should give enough information before having to face a double bet on 5th street. Smooth calling should cost $25 to see your (and everyone else's) 5th street card, while also revealing more cards and building a better pot for a potential flush. Raising on 3rd street, MAY (but in my opinion unlikely) win the pot, but will likely make it $40 to see 5th street and get less information for a smaller potential pot.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #20
JDPuopolo
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDPuopolo View Post
First of all, Ray Zee it is a pleasure. I refer to 7 Card Stud for Advanced Players often.

Regarding my post, let's say the game is $20-40 with a $3 ante and $5 bring in, and the players are mostly reasonable.

Aside from raising to try to take down the pot right then and there, what would be the real benefit of raising when you have a largely speculative hand? Two clubs are out, no pairs, no three-straight. I would think that smooth calling the bring-in would be a better value play than raising and getting the hand heads up. Smooth calling 3rd street and the almost inevitable taking one off on 4th street should give enough information before having to face a double bet on 5th street. Smooth calling should cost $25 to see your (and everyone else's) 5th street card, while also revealing more cards and building a better pot for a potential flush. Raising on 3rd street, MAY (but in my opinion unlikely) win the pot, but will likely make it $40 to see 5th street and get less information for a smaller potential pot.

Thoughts?
Actually, I'd like to amend this a little. I mistakenly thought that there were callers before the raise. I know believe that a raise would take the hand down way more often.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:59 PM   #21
Ray Zee
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

yes you raise to win what is out there. that is your best result. second best is to get only one caller as if you catch another high card usually you get a fold if he doesnt improve. this way you win with nothing.

but in small games they tag along with small pairs and will make life miserable for you with this hand. this is why if you play this hand you just call and try to catch up and get a payoff later in the hand. but this hand wont play well in any game that doesnt allow you win win without improving greatly.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:54 PM   #22
broncocalijohn
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Re: Stud Hi: 4th Street. To continue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
fold on 4th as he lead into two high cards that had raised going in. he has to have something and you have nothing. and his hand will be confusing to read.
Most likely the K is acting first in next round so if he checks, you are getting a free card if other 2 players do like-wise. There is a possibility that the player is spade draw but possibly liked the King for possible pair on future streets. 5th is telling so I say take one more minimum.
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