PokerStars, 7 Stud H/L Limit - $0.04/$0.08 ($0.01 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

Seat 7: $0.90 (23 bb)
Seat 8: $1.78 (45 bb)
Seat 1: $1.60 (40 bb)
Seat 2: $3.04 (76 bb)
Seat 3: $0.87 (22 bb)
Seat 4 (Hero): $1.57 (39 bb)
Seat 5: $1.10 (28 bb)
Seat 6: $2.23 (56 bb)

Third Street: ($0.08) Hero is in Seat 4
Xx Xx 5♥ BI bring-in $0.02____BI folds
Xx Xx Q♦ UTG folds
Xx Xx T♦ UTG+1 folds
Xx Xx 9♣ MP folds
Xx Xx 6♠ MP+1 folds
Xx Xx Q♣ LP raises to $0.04
3♥ K♥ 6♥ Hero calls $0.04
Xx Xx 6♦ BTN folds

Fourth Street: ($0.18) (2 players)
3♥ K♥ 6♥ A♦ Hero checks____Hero raises to $0.08____Hero calls $0.04
Xx Xx Q♣ J♠ LP bets $0.04____LP raises to $0.12

Fifth Street: ($0.42) (2 players)
3♥ K♥ 6♥ A♦ Q♠ Hero checks____Hero calls $0.08
Xx Xx Q♣ J♠ 5♠ LP bets $0.08

Sixth Street: ($0.58) (2 players)
3♥ K♥ 6♥ A♦ Q♠ T♥ Hero checks____Hero calls $0.08
Xx Xx Q♣ J♠ 5♠ 6♣ LP bets $0.08

Seventh Street: ($0.74) (2 players)
3♥ K♥ 6♥ A♦ Q♠ T♥ K♠ Hero checks____Hero calls $0.08
Xx Xx Q♣ J♠ 5♠ 6♣ Xx LP bets $0.08

For me 5th was the most suspect but i was getting 5 to 1 to spike a K, A, heart or low card on the next card... had a lot of backdoor stuff going on and his hand, despite his 3b on 4th looks a lot like 1 pair of queens or jacks.

When I caught the Q that excluded him from having rolled QQQ so I was only really afraid of JJJ or AA but I had an ace blocker for that too.

My raise on 4th is probably suspect as well but it's obviously a bluff to set up later stuff and yeah I know it's 4c/8c so "everyone's a moron" etc but I don't really believe that anymore.

I don't normally go deep into hands without the goods but I did suspect he was on a steal in the first place and I figured with pot odds I'm getting a good price to continue throughout.

Anyway don't hate on me playing this level. I'm looking after my baby daughter as I play and just having some fun here and I don't really play very much anymore but I still want to play well.

aces and kings are live, as well as hearts (save the 5h) so pre i think i like reraising rather than coldcalling. Q dead also.

4th you should be leading here. J is good for you but A is better and you have a range advantage. i'd basically lead 100% of the time here, for value and to disguise your actual holdings in future hands. but not just that, QJ will often check back in his spot so you lose value when you pair the ace and it checks back. his b/3b is really strong.

check/call 5th and 6th is fine. pot got big so you gotta call on 5th. i guess i c/f river. he basically said he doesn't care about your ace c/r on 4th, and another Q is dead on 5th. i think i'd need a fairly good read that my opponent is out of bounds with his pairs or draws to call, even in spite of the really good odds OTR.

that said if you called, from a fundamental point of view you're getting 10-1 when you're not at the bottom of your range, so it's not the worst thing? it's just that the way the hand played out and the way your board looks, you're gonna have enough river improves (like locked lows) that your opponent should ostensibly be checking back stuff he chops with or gets scooped by. basically say he has the case Q or TT or whatever - anyone reasonable will check that back OTR. the rest of the hands are either super value or some super overplayed missed draws and like i said, i'd need to know my opponent is capable of overdoing that before i'd feel like i wanna call here very often.

if you look on 3rd there is another queen gone, which has some bearing because i had it in mind during the hand

thank you so much for your reply

yeah i mentioned that in my first line, which is partly another factor i'm more inclined to raise him on 3rd, and why i talked about the case Q when determining his range by the river

Fold 5th, c/r on fourth is bad.


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OK. Why?

On fourth when Villian bets with QJ vs A6 in stud 8 they are typically pretty confidant with their hand and are going the rest of the way, they just never fold unless you end up pairing your Ace up. Which means, since you have only Ace high, you’re charging yourself more money to try and either beat two pair for the high or charging yourself extra to win half your money back it’s just terrible.

And on 5th it’s just as bad, you have to go runner runner to win half the pot and even better runner runner to beat their high. It’s just a leak that takes time to realize and stop. I used to do the same thing all the time.


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eight! not small antes and a high rake environment and I doubt we should play any calls in CO vs dead xxQ complete in the HJ. too much money in the pot, you'd always raise an A$L|6 etc.

4th is a must lead absent some very specific read. as played I agree with the poster that says his bet is pretty confident and showdown bound but still don't hate a raise with two overs (and blockers to better pp).

kf fifth seems best. all outs are dead, dirty, or runner runner. betting and kr seem better than kc as played.

I really don't think 5th is a fold at this price

Can't fold anything for 8 cents

i thought pot is a good size to give odds for the various runner runners i had and thought there was a shot my overs could be good if they spike a pair

basically once 6th comes if i hit a runner i continue and if not i fold

i can continue on 6th with a very large amount of cards. any heart, straight draw, low card, pair of any kind and also some of those hearts open other draws such as the T i received

that was my thought process anyway

Okay okay
4th is an obvious lead and x/r is ridiculous
5th is in no way a fold

Why do you think 5th isn’t a fold? You think it’s correct to have to pay 3 big bets and go runner runner to win half your money back?


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re 5th:

you can just catch too many cards on 6th that are either decent improves or lets you make something to throttle him on the river. with an added benefit of making you look like a total dumpster fire fish (not that that should play into the decision). the pot's just too big because of the 4th street action.

The price is just too good with 2 overcards (plus case Q) to beat split QQ and a 3-flush to beat anything, and that's not to mention the backdoor low draw.

So y’all think the price is good to have to call down .24 cents to win back that .24 and the antes from the pot after fourth street?

Are y’all for real? 5th is such a clear fold it’s not even funny or close. Idk, I just don’t see how it’s ever correct to have to call down 3 big bets without knowing which half of the pot we are playing for to just win back our money and maybe the antes. Just seems so bad. Way better to save our bets for a spot that actually is favorable.


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i think it's a bit weird you're looking it like calling down 3 big bets to win just your own half of the pot and some antes. it's relatively clear that part of why you call here is because you can sometimes scoop. and looking at 6th/7th, you have a relatively clear idea of what to do on most cards. you're getting 7.25 to 1 on 5th and that's the key.

like, i don't get why you wouldn't know what half of the pot you're playing for, either. basically any low will get half barring some insane hand from villain, straights and flushes are raising hands OTR, and you're literally never folding aces OTR. fwiw, as a corollary it makes me think my statement about folding the river with kings is more on the wrong side than the right.

You're just not thinking of this in the right way at all, and need to learn more about fundamental poker philosophy and theory of poker-type stuff.

not even a couple years ago i woulda thought this whole thread was insane but yeah in big pots, folding away reasonable equity is basically the worst thing ever

Oof, I'm pretty wrong about 5th. I don't think adding weight to JJ/QJ is unreasonable based on the 4th street action. But there's too many Qx combos for that weighting to overcome the price we're offered.

I’m very willing to admit when I’m wrong so there’s no worry in that. I’ve been mulling over this for a couple days, and the more I look at it, since we have an A and a K, I think that’s what makes it right odds wise correct?


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it makes a tremendous difference, because even as aggressively as he's played, he has too many Qx combos (as mentioned by munga) for the times you make aces or kings to overtake him by the river.

So like if it’s Jh under and 4d up it’s got to be a fold. TBH I really didn’t think the A and K made that much a difference but I guess it makes sense. So yea I was wrong calling down is fine it seems.


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dunno if it matters but fwiw:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: 5qt966

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
3hkh6hadqs	32.13%	134,891	134,891	93	121,378	0
qhkcqcjs5s	67.87%	349,278	465,016	93	0	0

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: 5qt966

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
3hkh6hadqs	33.37%	148,553	148,553	0	109,038	0
qh8cqcjs5s	66.63%	348,062	451,447	0	0	0

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: 5qt966

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
3hkh6hadqs	31.45%	133,757	133,757	17	115,533	0
qh*cqcjs5s	68.55%	356,314	466,226	17	0	0

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: 5qt966

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
3hkh6hadqs	20.37%	63,672	63,672	0	122,098	0
qhjcqcjs5s	79.63%	419,249	536,328	0	0	0

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: 5qt966

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
3hkh6hadqs	14.11%	25,538	25,538	0	122,351	0
jhjcqcjs5s	85.89%	456,215	574,462	0	0	0