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Old 09-04-2020, 02:38 AM   #1
old hand
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,677
stud 8: aces up facing weird action

Quarter ante structure, 8-handed.

2s brings in

I raise Ac As | 4d

8h, Ks, Td, Js fold

3c calls, 7c calls

xx | 3c 5s
xx | 7c 8c
Ac As | 4d Jd

I check, 35 bets, 78 calls, I call

xx | 3c 5s Qd
xx | 7c 8c 4h
Ac As | 4d Jd 6h

35Q checks, 784 inexplicably checks, I bet, they call

xx | 3c 5s Qd Kd
xx | 7c 8c 4h 9h
Ac As | 4d Jd 6h 6c

I bet, 35QK raises, 7849 calls

The player with 35QK is a solid player. The 7849 is a very recreational player. Borderline maniac sometimes, so the fact that he's passive here is kinda weird.

I think a bit about what solid guy has. I don't think he'd slowplay rolled up to this point. Pocket QQ seems unlikely as I think he'd just jam 5th with his set. Pocket KK maybe? But there was a dead K. I suppose it makes more sense than 333 or QQ, though, as I don't think he'd jam 5th with just KK vs 784 board.

Rec player plays trash. I think if he had anything remotely decent he would have made a lot more noise on 3rd, 4th, and 5th. So I see him as drawing here, mostly.

Overall, it feels like I'm too high in my range to consider folding, and I can make a full house on the river in worst case scenario. I also am trying to get away from hero folds based on reads. So I call and plan on calling river assuming nothing bad happens.

River 3s

I check, solid player bets, and rec player raises. Meh

Thoughts? Thanks

Last edited by kisada; 09-04-2020 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 09-04-2020, 10:29 AM   #2
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

I'd prefer raising or folding QQ3 or KK3 in his spot as these hands much prefer hu action and inviting more low doors in is particularly unhelpful. If the antes were bigger it's even more clear those hands should raise but still a significant pot in the middle because 8 handed. So I'm discounting those trips.

I think you have a three bet on 6th. solid player only kc 5th when he should absolutely kr if he were rolled up and xx784 checks, so discounting those too. his raise could also be with diamonds ith and has picked up two way equity and with all the discounts I'm giving trips we should still have great 3way equity against him. Our sixes block rec player's straights and he just cc so unlikely to have it. Doesn't strike me as too ambitious but interested in feedback.

As played I grit my teeth and call 7th and wonder if I can fold if jammed further. Either one can have a hand that beats you for high but can also have hands that benefit by knocking out your mediocre highs. If anything, you're a little underrepped. complete 3rd, kc 4th, *only* bet when check to on 5th, only bc 6th. Too high in your range to give up just yet.

If you can find a tempo call here I would feel a little better about folding to a jam. thinking just invites more shots at you the second time around, imo.
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Old 09-04-2020, 03:11 PM   #3
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

River is tough, but 6 is a 3! He shouldn't have had trips on 5 and he shouldn't flat call KK on 3, so my best guess is he made a weird kings up starting with a flush draw or something.
It looks like 9874 made trips or a straight on the river but you obviously have to be really confident to make the fold.
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:37 PM   #4
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

Good points and good posts, thanks, guys.

- I do think solid player would raise KK/QQ on 3rd. So I agree with you guys when you say he has FD + K in the hole often here.

- And as such yeah I think I missed clear value with the best hand by not jamming 6th. Solid player absolutely is raising kings up here. I think I got into my own head a bit because he's my friend and he knows I literally have 2p+ here on 6th - sees me as good and solid. Like I know he'll expect me to have a legit hand at this point and I got rattled. But I think this is not how I want to be looking at poker situations.

- And yeah I do feel underrepped, given all that was mentioned. And as such I am definitely too high in range to fold river, on average.

- FWIW I think solid player will play his kings up cautiously OTR and check.

Last edited by kisada; 09-04-2020 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:47 PM   #5
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

So I mentioned this to someone else who also knows the player and he brought up that "solid player" might be the wrong classification here. While I think he's solid overall, I do think he's more cautious than solid/tough at stud 8.
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Old 09-05-2020, 03:55 PM   #6
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

When people do weird ****, just get to showdown as quickly as possible, especially when you should only be playing for half.
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:57 PM   #7
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

Random thoughts:

"Solid player" could have KcQc and made two pair on 6th. Another possibility is KK (as mentioned). Another is he wants it heads up on 6th to promote some kind of hand that beats 66.

As far as rec player goes, a lot of them love to draw, but sort of lose interest if they hit early. It sounds strange, I know, but he could have hit a straight on 5th or a lock low, and lost interest. If he had made an 8, he knew he would have to show it down and was going through the motions.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:13 AM   #8
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Re: stud 8: aces up facing weird action

A couple thoughts:

- the "solid" player has more combos of KQ in the hole possible than KK. You also said he'd raise your complete on 3rd w buried KK or QQ. KcQc in the hole definitely makes sense for a hand he'd flat your complete on 3rd with. He then bets 4th when you check and tries to represent the low draw. He then checks 5th when he pairs his Q, trying to see 6th as cheap as he can when he's facing two scary boards. When you bet 6th, he beats all other two pair unless you have exactly AA in the hole. Sure you could have a 6 in the hole. (65)4 for example. But more combos of buried pairs. Would you have called 4th with (65)4J? Probably not against the two hands your opponents were showing. Would you have bet 5th with (65)4J6? Probably not. He is probably putting you on two pair here and thinking his kings up are good.

- what does the recreational player have? Could he have (TT)7, (T9)7, (T8)7, (T7)7, (98)7, (97)7, or (96)7 on 3rd? Nines are completely live when he catches the nine on 6th. These all seem to fit w how the hand played. If he had a made low on 5th, he would've bet when the "solid" player checked to him. Likewise, he would've three bet 6th. I think recreational player made his straight on the river or made a full house. Think you have to fold here. "Solid" player could've definitely made a full house as well.
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