4 handed, part of a mix, 12.5% antes

Villain: xx58J7x
Hero: (K7)789Q( 6)

3rd: 2 bi, villain complete, 4 fold, I raise, bi folds, villain calls
4th: I bet, villain calls
5th: villain checks, I bet, villain calls
6th: villain bets, I call
7th: villain bets, hero?

Should I bet 3bet 3rd? Bet 5th? 6th I think is standard call. How about 7th?

Result:

hard for me to fold with 8, 9, and a 6. and pot size.

but also it's like, what can he even have that he's willing to lead 6th street into a ccc board? not like he made two pair or trips on 6th, either.

i guess i'd fold partly cause of that, and partly because i'm gonna have much better hands OTR. we're just so low in range.

Yeah, this is a pretty easy fold unless opponent is really a maniac or a very skilled high stakes player.

Opponent ISN'T a "very skilled high stakes player" because leading that spot on 6 is completely ridiculous. He caught a dead card against a very strong board and suddenly bet? Terrible. Whole range should be checked.

Well, my point is a skilled or very aggro player might bet river with total air. But note that on the river the hero checks and the villain chooses to bet one more time. How often is that a bluff? Against either a very aggressive player (a "maniac" is maybe too strong) or a very bold and skilled one, then maybe it's often enough to make calling worthwhile. Most of the folks I play with at low stakes, though, give up here.

I'm not just being an ass; I'm trying to make an important point. The possibility of a player being skilled can be completely disregarded when he leads 6th. I'm not even talking about what hero should do this hand; I don't really care about that.

Why post, your point is meaningless. In hindsight, the opponent bet because he made the straight, he most likely started with (46)5 and then caught an on fourth for the gutshot and couldn't let it go. Horribly played but he got lucky, happens everyday. The question the poster asked was about the river call, my response is that he could safely fold against most players here - the exceptions being unusually aware players who might turn a draw into a bluff here or unusually aggressive ones who bet and bluff too often. You personally may not be an ass, but your response...let's just say it makes me think you'd be welcome at my table.

No, it's not meaningless. It's important to be able to see that there are some plays that a good player will never ever make and try to understand why. In my coaching I've found it much more helpful to talk about generalities than the exact specifics of a situation since it's so easy for the right answer to change with the change of a small detail. I use that philosophy in my posting here, too.

even if the post doesn't address what hero should do in the hand, it brings up a couple pretty important things.

the most important one being what a reasonable player would do on 6th street. even if he's not outright stating what OP should do, this tells us what we should definitely not do if we are in villain's shoes, in addition to identifying his play as bad/unusual in the event we are OP's situation in the future. there is a lot to learn.

mrba, i'd suggest that you don't take the reply defensively and see what you can learn from someone who is an established HS player, instead of being in a rush to clash against him.

Ugh, please, I'm a long-time winning rec player, have co-written two basic poker books (an idiot's guide and a guide to tells), never played or claimed to have played high stakes. Basically, this is a common dilemma -- someone calls down with very little, catches up late in the hand and pot odds make it hard to fold. In reading the account pre-spoiler, I didn't guess that the opponent made a straight. I would have expected hidden trips or maybe jacks up before that. But the point is that the opponent chose to bet the river, with little expectation of forcing a fold. Hero's hand didn't improve, so even getting 7-1 +- odds, it's solid place to fold against most opponents. End of story, and unlike in pro sports, most "coaches" and "high stakes players" aren't particularly worthy of deference -- often the opposite since many are basically losers in life -- without more info, give me the stone cold gamblers like a Phil Ivey, the scholars like Sklansky or the new generation of solver-driven game killers who don't think strategically at all in a classic sense.

really weird take and response. your reading comprehension is lacking and it seems you don't know what you're really arguing.

one of many ironies in this discussion is that you indicate you'd respect a solver-oriented response, yet in the actual hand a GTO solve would literally never lead 6th street.

One of is having comprehension issues. I think, on that we agree. Let’s leave it there.

Gentlemen, if I may get in a word here, villain did not lead 6th as he wasn’t high

I think zoo check-called

Yes, his post was a bit misleading but it does seem that he caught high on sixth and check called. As I noted opponent had a chance for a free showdown on the river when Zoo checked, but opted to bet. The experts may have meta-game insights, but I think it's a pretty safe fold against most opponents.

Fold on seventh is definitely reasonable but the brew ha ha started because kisada and rolled up assumed villain had donked and were opining on that aspect and your comment about opponent possibly being a highly skilled player got hit by some shrapnel.

By the way zoo, I’d definitely lead 6th because you will very rarely get raised and you shouldn’t check fold here. All prior streets are standard. Only seventh is up for debate

Yeah I wasn’t saying he was highly skilled, I was saying it’s easy to overdo light call downs and in general the places to consider making them are v highly skilled opponents or highly aggressive ones.

Yes my bad for not saying that I checked 6th and 7t. When I got called 5th I thought I was pretty often behind as I think 55 mostly folds. But perhaps I wasn’t considering how strong my board looks. But beyond not having to worry about getting to raise, does that mean I ever bluff bet river?

No, I think you will get many continues with 55, he could have a high kicker, a three flush in hearts and/or view 5th street as another continuation bet. And in actual hand looks like he called with a gutshot to a dead seven. Betting sixth may get 55 to fold which is good or it at least makes him put in a bet when he’s behind, as he may often check behind with that.

Not sure what’s the best play on 7th but I doubt it’s profitable from the bluff component only. Sometimes it’s a combination of good things that can happen that may make a bet good, for example the possible combo that he sometimes calls 55 or folds a pair of eights