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Old 09-13-2017, 06:59 AM   #1
dev209
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 9
razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Feral Cow Poker Hand Converter
PokerStars Limit Razz $5/$10 ante $0.75 - 3 players

Seat 1 Hero: $180.88 [] [] []
Seat 4 AikaKone: $1,031.11 [] [] []
Seat 5 skogsbarn: $73.38 [X] [X]

3rd Street: ($2.25) (3 players)
AikaKone brings, skogsbarn folds, Hero raises to $5, AikaKone raises to $10, Hero calls $5

4th Street: ($22.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $5, Hero calls $5

5th Street: ($32.25) (2 players)
Hero bets $10, AikaKone calls $10

6th Street: ($52.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $10, Hero calls $10

River: ($72.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $10, Hero calls $10

Hero showed, Lo: T,6,5,3,2
AikaKone showed, Lo: K,8,5,4,A
Hero won $90.25
(Rake: $2)


3rd street - standard - i mean i could 4bet, but i want to disguis my hand a little bit. makes sense?

4th street - i think i have to call here, 1st our hand is still strong, 2nd the likelihood that Villain already got an Ace is a little bit increased, because of his 3rd street play and we don't block an Ace and Villain2 folded a deuce.

5th street - leading on 5th, its fine i think.

6th street - I cant bet, correct? Folding is to weak? I mean Villain would have folded probably his paired A on 5th Street, but he could have paired the 4 as well; the factors are the same as on 4th Street. I check/call and still draw to a better Hand if i am behind.

7th Street - do we have to call here anytime? Are there cards, which makes it ebtter to check/call? Like a 6,3,5,2 (we pair) this would decrease the likelihood for Villain to have a hand... Is this a factor to consider if we herocall?
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:09 PM   #2
zoogenhiem
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

I'm a razz newb but not 3betting (you erroneously say 4betting) 3rd seems fine to avoid from playing a bloated pot. I guess it comes down to how much bring ins resteal in razz.

4th street seems like standard call. He could've paired. Vs his exact hand, you're 35%. Worst case scenario you're 23%, but you only need 15% equity to call given the pot odds.

5th street I'd definitely lead, for instance you're 66% vs his exact hand and your worse case scenario you're still 47%.

6th street definitely can't fold. You have a very good draw that you would probably still call with even if you didn't have a made ten, although that makes it even better because as you find out on 7th you still have showdown value.

On 7th street, I guess you just have to pay. It's hard to analyze objectively considering you've already shown us the results. For future postings, j suggest hiding the opponent's downcards.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:52 PM   #3
RolldUpTrips
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Only thing I would do differently is k/r 5. Opp has represented the best hand the whole way so let him bet one more time.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:35 PM   #4
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
Only thing I would do differently is k/r 5. Opp has represented the best hand the whole way so let him bet one more time.
It seems like he would just check unless he was super smooth underneath
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:46 PM   #5
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by dev209 View Post
Feral Cow Poker Hand Converter
PokerStars Limit Razz $5/$10 ante $0.75 - 3 players

Seat 1 Hero: $180.88 [] [] []
Seat 4 AikaKone: $1,031.11 [] [] []
Seat 5 skogsbarn: $73.38 [X] [X]

3rd Street: ($2.25) (3 players)
AikaKone brings, skogsbarn folds, Hero raises to $5, AikaKone raises to $10, Hero calls $5

4th Street: ($22.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $5, Hero calls $5

5th Street: ($32.25) (2 players)
Hero bets $10, AikaKone calls $10

6th Street: ($52.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $10, Hero calls $10

River: ($72.25) (2 players)
AikaKone bets $10, Hero calls $10

Hero showed, Lo: T,6,5,3,2
AikaKone showed, Lo: K,8,5,4,A
Hero won $90.25
(Rake: $2)


3rd street - standard - i mean i could 4bet, but i want to disguis my hand a little bit. makes sense?

4th street - i think i have to call here, 1st our hand is still strong, 2nd the likelihood that Villain already got an Ace is a little bit increased, because of his 3rd street play and we don't block an Ace and Villain2 folded a deuce.

5th street - leading on 5th, its fine i think.

6th street - I cant bet, correct? Folding is to weak? I mean Villain would have folded probably his paired A on 5th Street, but he could have paired the 4 as well; the factors are the same as on 4th Street. I check/call and still draw to a better Hand if i am behind.

7th Street - do we have to call here anytime? Are there cards, which makes it ebtter to check/call? Like a 6,3,5,2 (we pair) this would decrease the likelihood for Villain to have a hand... Is this a factor to consider if we herocall?
Looks like you played the hand very well and zoog had some good comments

I would tend to go for value on 3rd because you have three wheel and two cards that would pair you out. And I do think you want to bloat the pot to make it really correct to call on 4th no matter how the cards fall.

But there seems to be some merit in disguising your hand somewhat. And just his re-raise means that the pot is big enough to call on 4th no matter what. If you re-raise he will usually accurately surmise that a 7 or 8 does not pair you

I would not consider the call on 7th a herocall though it was a good call but one you should make against many players given the odds
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:56 AM   #6
RolldUpTrips
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
It seems like he would just check unless he was super smooth underneath
Disagree completely. He puts you on a steal/semi-steal and checking 5 there shows a lot of weakness. He should fire very often.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:09 PM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
Disagree completely. He puts you on a steal/semi-steal and checking 5 there shows a lot of weakness. He should fire very often.
I'm not sure; we had to have had something to call on 4th, can't call with a four card JT or something like that if we were on a steal.
But maybe he should bet with any four card 8 or better in case we paired the 6.

Regardless I think a bet out is what I would do in case he paired and I can win right there but I can be persuaded to go with c/r if we know he's betting regardless

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 09-14-2017 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:42 PM   #8
dev209
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 9
Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

thank you guys for those thoughts!
some thought to 5th street by me, afetr I read your comments;
I think on 5th you can definitely checkraise, but we need maybe some indicators that villain is betting here?
Maybe the 5th Street play depends on the 3rd street play;
(1) if we cap on 3rd street (as suggested), we should/could lead on 5th (if scenario on 4th is the same), because we look to strong!?
(2)But after we disguised the hand on 3rd street (only called), I could understand the idea of checkraising on 5th...
thank you very much guys its very important to here good and interesting opinions!

And yes i will hide the results next time!
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:52 AM   #9
RolldUpTrips
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 647
Re: razz 5/10 - factors for calling down on 7th Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by dev209 View Post
thank you guys for those thoughts!
some thought to 5th street by me, afetr I read your comments;
I think on 5th you can definitely checkraise, but we need maybe some indicators that villain is betting here?
Maybe the 5th Street play depends on the 3rd street play;
(1) if we cap on 3rd street (as suggested), we should/could lead on 5th (if scenario on 4th is the same), because we look to strong!?
(2)But after we disguised the hand on 3rd street (only called), I could understand the idea of checkraising on 5th...
thank you very much guys its very important to here good and interesting opinions!

And yes i will hide the results next time!
First of all, don't cap 3rd. Keep your range wide and your opponent guessing as to how strong you are and what types of cards pair me. My favorite opponents in razz are those who give away the strength of their holding by going to war on 3. Now I know that wheel cards are very likely to pair them and 8s aren't, for example. I agree that if you mistakenly raise again on 3 then you can't try to k/r 5 since you look too strong. As it stands, good players will continue to attack your perceived weakness on 5. In addition to getting in an extra bet good here, k/r on 5 protects the weaker part of your range by punishing him for attacking too often. So much of razz is picking up small-medium pots with aggression. Make your opponents think twice before they try.
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