Mississippi Razz is a big-bet variant. Pot limit with two blinds. Action on 3rd street begins to the left of big blind. Action on subsequent streets begins with low hand. 4th and 5th streets are dealt together to reduce the number of betting rounds to four. 7th street is dealt face up. Invented by former poster David Zanetti.

Dealing 300 600 Mississippi Razz

ODB Phat Mack blinds 300
tombayz blinds 600
2 Jerry Garcia 0 53700 0 [ ] [ ] Js
3 B NPR 2 $8675 0 [ ] [ ] 3c
4 SB ODB Phat Mack 2 $25089 300 [3s] [4c] 2h
5 BB tombayz 2 $18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c
6 > Chango 0 5750 0 [ ] [ ] Kd
7 Delta Dawn 2 10688 0 [ ] [ ] Qd
8 OOP 2 10285 0 [ ] [ ] Tc

Chango folds
Delta Dawn folds
OOP folds
Jerry Garcia folds
NPR calls
ODB Phat Mack ???
tombayz

What's my play?

pretty nifty game it seems like.

i can't say i've played anything like this but i'd certainly wanna raise vs a button limp range and a BB range.

I didn't think the button's limp conveyed any information. PL mix games are full of players who dream of making a big hand and *then* getting it all in. Plus, I tend to judge early razz-hand strength in terms of dead cards, but not sure if anyone else at the table does the same. I have little idea of what button has, other than perhaps 3 different ranks of nine or lower.

If I limp and BB checks, there will be $1800 in the pot. The rule of 13 tells me that this is enough to get the effective stacks in, so I just call.

But I'm pretty sure calling is wrong, I should have raised at least the min. Why give the BB a free look, especially if the look is going to be two cards and I have a good hand? I think min-clicking is better than calling.

Moving right along...


Dealing 300 600 Mississippi Razz

ODB Phat Mack blinds 300
tombayz blinds 600
2 Jerry Garcia 0 53700 0 [ ] [ ] Js
3 B NPR 2 $8675 0 [ ] [ ] 3c
4 SB ODB Phat Mack 2 $25089 300 [3s] [4c] 2h
5 BB tombayz 2 $18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c
6 > Chango 0 5750 0 [ ] [ ] Kd
7 Delta Dawn 2 10688 0 [ ] [ ] Qd
8 OOP 2 10285 0 [ ] [ ] Tc

Chango folds
Delta Dawn folds
OOP folds
Jerry Garcia folds
NPR calls
ODB Phat Mack calls
OMC tombayz checks

4th & 5th Street
3 B > NPR 2 8075 600 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 24789 600 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h
5 OMC tombayz 2 18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c Jh Th

POT == 1800
NPR bets 900
It is 900 to you
ODB Phat Mack ???

Now what?

hmm well, i think invariably button has a wide range even if you feel that a lot of players are trying to see the flop for cheap.

the biggest things for me though are this

- his range is not only a button range, but a limping range. so it'll be wide even if it may include some strong hands.
- the dead cards i don't think are too much of an impact. if say 555 6 AA had been folded yeah maybe. neutral i would think here with a dead 3/5
- folding out BB is huge for you here. he doesn't get to show you 5A2 OTF and bet you out for free. he doesn't get to realize free equity that all of a sudden now is on par with your draw.
- even if button plays a nit range here, which i assume he doesn't, you're 50/50 against A23. so getting BB out is great. if button has any kind of reasonable range here you're doing better than that.

but anyway i'm not trying to harp on it, i just think i'd always wanna raise here, even if it were for the minimum.

on flop i think check/call seems best. it allows you to continue with a pretty strong hand and your opponent has the range advantage. if you just bet out it allows him to control the game at his own pace given position. you just can't ever rep a better hand than he has, and by not raising pre your ability to rep the hand you actually have is undercut.

That's what I ended up doing. Button is low, so button leads out. I hit a made 7-4 on 4th+5th street. Button hit better, but given his starting range as 8s, he is ~66% to have an 8 or a worse 7 and he is ~40% to have paired. I'm fairly confident that I have the best and now, but if I can be out-drawn shouldn't I charge for the privilege?

So why did I call? Button started with only a third of my stack and I think I have the best hand, so I'm fairly committed to showdown. Did I think I could bring along BB with his jack? Unlikely. More likely, I thought I was trapping. I had a hand and someone else was betting it for me, so I didn't want to interfere. But one of the reasons I posted this hand was that I thought calling may be too passive.

Anyway...

Dealing 300 600 Mississippi Razz

ODB Phat Mack blinds 300
tombayz blinds 600
2 Jerry Garcia 0 53700 0 [ ] [ ] Js
3 B NPR 2 $8675 0 [ ] [ ] 3c
4 SB ODB Phat Mack 2 $25089 300 [3s] [4c] 2h
5 BB tombayz 2 $18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c
6 > Chango 0 5750 0 [ ] [ ] Kd
7 Delta Dawn 2 10688 0 [ ] [ ] Qd
8 OOP 2 10285 0 [ ] [ ] Tc

Chango folds
Delta Dawn folds
OOP folds
Jerry Garcia folds
NPR calls
ODB Phat Mack calls
OMC tombayz checks

4th & 5th Street
3 B > NPR 2 8075 600 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 24789 600 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h
5 OMC tombayz 2 18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c Jh Th

POT == 1800
NPR bets 900
It is 900 to you
ODB Phat Mack calls
tombayz folds

6th Street
3 B > NPR 2 7175 1500 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s 8d
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 23889 1500 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h 7d

POT == 3600
NPR bets 1800
It is 1800 to you
ODB Phat Mack ???

Button hits an 8, I pair, and button leads out with another half-pot bet. I???

hmm, yeah

just to be clear i'm no razz expert, i'm mostly going off of what i think seems best from my mixed game experience.

this is first 8 we've seen. so the 8 pairs him sometimes, but even if it didn't it'd still be good cause we're beating 8's.

second 7 we've seen. kinda bad, actually, because we have 7 perfect and we want him to put money in with a worse 7.

we know for sure the 5 helped him. and i think when an opponent is willing to bet 6th then he's saying the 2 did not pair him on 5th, esp looking at our board.

6's all live is pretty meh. i think i call with intention to shrug/call river much of the time, river card depending. i could be convinced into folding a few rivers because our opponent's river bets should be way more weighted to value bets than bluffs, considering the strength of our board. so like say we caught another 7, we checked and he went all in, that seems like a reasonable fold.

only thing i know for sure is that i wouldn't want to all of a sudden turn my hand into a c/r AI on 6th or lead on 7th. i still subscribe to our opponent's range being wide enough that we can't just give up yet.

You have a monster on third so raise.

On fifth, you have a big hand that is under repped. You should be easy ahead of his limping range. Same goes for sixth. Given how weak I think his limp is, I like calling both streets to keep his bluffs and weak value in.

On 5th street, the best hand I can have is a 7-4, while the best hand button can have is a wheel. I assume button knows this. But at the same time, I know that I am way ahead of button's range. Button's half-pot betting doesn't tell me much, but I think he may be giving me an opportunity to make a bad fold. I'm committed to showing this hand down. I min-raise to 3600. This is half button's stack at the start of this round, and I hope it will commit him to putting in the rest of it on the river.

My thinking immediately after doing it was that I was being too cute and should have gone all-in right then and there.

Thoughts? Too cute?
Also, if I smooth call, I still can't fold the river, can I? That would be crazy.

Dealing 300 600 Mississippi Razz

ODB Phat Mack blinds 300
tombayz blinds 600
2 Jerry Garcia 0 53700 0 [ ] [ ] Js
3 B NPR 2 $8675 0 [ ] [ ] 3c
4 SB ODB Phat Mack 2 $25089 300 [3s] [4c] 2h
5 BB tombayz 2 $18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c
6 > Chango 0 5750 0 [ ] [ ] Kd
7 Delta Dawn 2 10688 0 [ ] [ ] Qd
8 OOP 2 10285 0 [ ] [ ] Tc

Chango folds
Delta Dawn folds
OOP folds
Jerry Garcia folds
NPR calls
ODB Phat Mack calls
OMC tombayz checks

4th & 5th Street
3 B > NPR 2 8075 600 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 24789 600 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h
5 OMC tombayz 2 18549 600 [ ] [ ] 5c Jh Th

POT == 1800
NPR bets 900
It is 900 to you
ODB Phat Mack calls
tombayz folds

6th Street
3 B > NPR 2 7175 1500 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s 8d
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 23889 1500 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h 7d

POT == 3600
NPR bets 1800
It is 1800 to you
ODB Phat Mack raises 1800 to 3600
NPR calls

7th Street
3 B > NPR 2 3575 5100 [ ] [ ] 3c 5d 2s 8d 4h
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 20289 5100 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h 7d 9h

POT == 10,800
NPR bets 3575 and is all-in
It is 3575 to you
ODB Phat Mack calls


3 B NPR 2 0 8675 [4s] [6s] 3c 5d 2s 8d 4h
4 ODB Phat Mack 2 16714 8675 [3s] [4c] 2h As 7h 7d 9h

NPR 4s 6s Six (6 5 4 3 2) 6s 5d 4s 3c 2s
ODB Phat Mack 3s 4c Seven (7 4 3 2 A) 7h 4c 3s 2h As
NPR wins 17950

i guess i just don't know what the min raise really does.

i think the point of playing check/call up until now is to keep his worse hands and bluffs in. if you min c/r then you're kinda letting him stay in there with the parts of his range that have equity to draw against you, and letting him get away otherwise. if you wanna make him commit, then c/r bomb him.

i will say i agree that if we are to play this way, it should be with intention to call 6th and 7th and not to fold. very hard to fold river IMO. if we were going to fold, it should have been on 6th because we think he's magically got us beat, but we are always head of BTN limp range there so that logic can never equate. like IMO he has to turn his cards face up for us to think differently.

I can't imagine not raising on 3 and I can't imagine raising on 5. You can't let his weak hands off the hook that easily. 6th I'm not sure if I would raise or call. I certainly wouldn't do this min-raise nonsense.

Raise third b/c getting two cards it's easy enough for the blind to show a dominating board with a hand he would have folded otherwise, and you are getting a small amount of value from a limping range. I agree that most of the money is in later streets but there's a little bit here and you may not get to later streets.

I call all other streets. 9FS and Rolld have articulated why.