hi, welcome, and stick around

Figured someone needed to post something in this thread. 20/40 Stud Hi at Commerce. I complete with split aces. Get two callers, one with a ten door, and another with a jack door. Irrelevant cards on forth. I bet and and both call. On fifth, ten pairs his door. Other villain catches apparent garbage. Ten door bets. Tens are live. And the second villain raises me. Folded the hand. Then these two guys check each other down to the river. The raiser has absolutely nothing. Claims he was chasing gut shot. The guy with the tens ended up rivering a second pair and wins.

I made some comment about them working together, which kinds of goes unnoticed. Then another guy watching the action pipes in, and says that what happened "wasn't right". Then all hell breaks loose at the table, with accusations of cheating, without me saying another word. The two villains are friends and the raiser somehow thinks that telling me that he has been friends with the other guy for 40 years somehow helps.

I left the game about 15 minutes after, and people were still arguing about that hand. Good ole Commerce.

It's been 10-15 years since I've read a Commerce Stud post, but the content is exactly the same as the last one I read. In these fraught times, I'm glad some things stay the same.

Was it Speedracer who was our goto guy for the Commerce? Snakehead?

if i never play at commerce again it will be too soon

QFT

one event even if suspicious isnt enough to go accusing people. as sometimes in ones mind a play you dont think is right might seem perfect to someone else

its sad as stud is more fun to play and gives hand reading and betting more options.

The relative speeds may be reversed now. In hold em, the players have to be reminded to get their noses out of their smart phones and act. But it's difficult to get their attention because of their headphones. In stud they have to be more attentive or they're dead money. Of course, it may just depend on stakes and location.

ymmv (short for 'your mileage may vary')

lol

I have recently gotten back into live poker, playing a lot of stud in the past month or so in New England. I have always really enjoyed 7stud, and the games are very good. Only two things currently annoy me:

1. the clientele of these games are overpopulated with rude jerks.
2. the god damn 7th street slow squeeze. Even worse than the squeeze is when, in a heads up pot, it goes bet/call or check/check, first player announces and tables his hand, 2nd player is clearly beat but take 20s to read the opponent's hand and then make some faces and then muck.

WSOP schedule is out! Who's going?

did you ever notice how it seems all those that squeeze out the last card and stare at the winning hand are losers in the game. its part of playing with losing poker players.

Really true in lowball. Squeezing the draw instead of watching other players reaching for chips.

So true Ray, card squeezers are the big losers. And while the stud games are or at least were, been years for me) great at Foxwoods, the locals are very cranky. Lots of 20-40 though which is good. The AC games area bit friendlier but still some cranky folks. Such is life and gambling. The staring at the hand for awhile you get everywhere.

I will say today I had a free 4 hours on my way to central Connecticut and played some 20/40 stud at foxwoods, and it's the most fun I've had playing cards in a while. Even the cranks were in a jovial mood.

I wish I stared a little bit last night. I got check raised on 7th by an obvious boat but paid off with my flush and then tossed into the muck.

It wasn't until the next hand I realized I had and 8-Q straight flush.

These things, they happen.

The foxwoods 20/40 game is very good, though maybe I'm not, as I've booked a few healthy losses in a row.

One time (holdem) on the river a guy led out and I was like "I have a set, but yeah, you just made a flush, congrats" and I folded. Then my friend pointed out that actually the board paired...... Too late.

we all overlook hands at times . that is the bad breaks. just try to get in a habit of saying to yourself what you have and are trying to make.

in those good games you guys have got to tighten up your starting hands. believe me. with more players in and staying longer your hands have to change more to the drawing side and not the one pair side. and live cards go way up in value for both you and him.

I play 20-40 stud regularly (100's of hours primarily at Foxwoods) and what is described here is barely suspicious. Matter of fact, if the guy with the J door had pocket underpair to 10's, I might even say it was a decent creative play (albeit a little overaggressive) ... including the check down once the A was out. There is a decent chance the 10 door folds 10's only (maybe started with a 3 flush and played a skip), and even a chance he folds 10's up. The A (even if he has A's he is representing) folds unless improved quite often....and if all else fails the gutshot could hit (if we're to believe that's what he had). The way he played it on 5th screams rolled J's, J's up or hidden set...like I said, a little over aggressive and then lack of follow through/conviction to check it down, but not at all unusual for how a mid stakes stud game is played IMO.

that is a standard play a good player may make and others think it screams cheating.
he knocks your aces out of the pot and gets to play headsup against a hand he may think isnt trips. maybe he has a ten in the hole.

The villain (call him mani - short for maniac) here is not a good player. He can be an absolute maniac. Case in point. Guy with a king door raises to this guy, who has another king. Mani raises him. Original raiser, raises him back. Mani puts in nine bets before original raiser finally stops.

On fourth, original raiser pairs his king door, and bets into Mani. Mani raises him back. They get into a raising war and Mani ends up all-in. So they go to the river. Mani's starting hand was two diamonds and an unsuited king door. Nothing else. Of course he rivers the flush and wins vs pocket aces that didn't fill. The guy who lost was getting killed in the game, and this hand pretty much finished him.

This was the day after the hand I originally posted about. So this very experienced guy (winner of two Stud WSOP bracelets from quite a while ago) looks at me and says something like "after that hand, are you ever folding in that spot again - you played the cards and not the players" He was essentially calling me a dumb-ass for that fold. My problem was that I didn't know much about the guy with the paired tens.

The next day, Mani has a repeat performance. Ace door raises him, and they get into a raising war, and by fifth Mani is all-in again. He had pocket sixes. Ends up with sixes and deuces and the split aces never improve. And Mani sits there both times bragging about how people better not mess with him. Needless to say, this guy is great for the game, but if he hits, the losses really pile up fast.

Edit - one more thing. When Mani busts out, he will often re-buy for ten racks.

Well you better not ever go to Commerce in LA if you think New England is rude. There is no comparison. Some of the comments I have heard directed at the dealers and other players there, are simply unbelievable. Combined with card throwing and other stuff. Happens all the time. There are some real nasty personalities in those games. I don't let it bother me - just part of the color that you get at Commerce. And to a lesser degree in all of these games.

yep the southern california namely l.a. games are wild and abusive and always were even worse back in the gardena lowball and draw games.
if you didnt want to fight and argue you just let it go and played your hands and won the money.

Just put the ol' 11-bet in on 5th street in razz!