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Old 09-28-2017, 01:33 PM   #1
Tryba
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Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

regardless of how good a low draw or high hand i'm always seeing players calling a large bet in a nothing pot. Seems far easier/more correct to fold and play the next hand.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:12 PM   #2
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

A general one for tournaments is not realizing some levels have bigger antes compared to the big bet than others and not stealing more/tightening up depending on the level.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:56 PM   #3
Howard Beale
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Calling raising Aces w/ face cards in Stud8. OTOH, I only play mid-stakes so maybe it's correct in larger games, IDK.

Btw, the 'best' I ever saw was a hand where all 4 9's were up on 3rd and 3 of them called a complete.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:58 PM   #4
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Drawing to dead flushes in both stud high and split.

Playing razz hands in S8.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:59 AM   #5
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

I've seen players call all bets (including raises) to the river with any cards, not understanding the values.

But this is something you will see in all forms of poker rarely
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:20 AM   #6
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Stud8 - People playing high only hands and what Howard said re: calling raises with face cards when an A is the aggressor.

Both games - Calling multiple bets with clearly the worst of it. I just cannot believe some of the things I see.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:17 PM   #7
Howard Beale
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi View Post
Both games - Calling multiple bets with clearly the worst of it. I just cannot believe some of the things I see.
Time for a story:

Once upon a time (no longer) Talking Stick had 3 15-30 Stud Hi games/day. I'll mention it was a chained MM. I get seated and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! the unknown on my left had 12+racks in front of him. I soon found out why: all he did was bet and raise. No matter what he had it was bet/raise and, ofc, the action was insane but he'd apparently been running hotter than the sun. He was also dead drunk.

Then he started to lose and when he got down to 3 racks or so he pulled a paper out of his pocket which I could read bec I was right next to him. The top said 'Tucson Gambler's Anonymous' and he started to call some of the phone numbers on it. He flipped the paper over and it was titled 'Tucson Alcoholics Anonymous' and he made calls to those numbers also.

Then he started to win again and his phone started to ring but he wouldn't answer. I mentioned his ringing phone and he said 'I don't want to talk to those people.'

The waitress came by and he tried to order another drink but she couldn't understand his slurred speech so I told her what he wanted since I'd heard it a few times already. She came back w/ a manager and what often happened was a drunk would get sent home. I went to the manager and said that they couldn't let him get in a car so they just cut him off.

He still had chips when I left hours later and I never saw him again.
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Old 09-30-2017, 07:16 PM   #8
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post

Then he started to lose and when he got down to 3 racks or so he pulled a paper out of his pocket which I could read bec I was right next to him. The top said 'Tucson Gambler's Anonymous' and he started to call some of the phone numbers on it. He flipped the paper over and it was titled 'Tucson Alcoholics Anonymous' and he made calls to those numbers also.

Then he started to win again and his phone started to ring but he wouldn't answer. I mentioned his ringing phone and he said 'I don't want to talk to those people.'
hilarious
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Old 09-30-2017, 07:30 PM   #9
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

I think the common ones in Stud 8 are not paying attention to dead cards, bad 4th street peels, not betting made lows when it is clear that low is best, incorrectly folding in large pots, razz hands being played aggressively/at all, playing 99-KK when another player is in the hand with a higher door card and playing too many hands

Also i think people overplay low pairs with a low card pretty often, myself included.

I wish I could have a stud coach.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:42 PM   #10
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

in both stud and s/8 the largest mistake people make is not folding their first three cards in bad spots.
its a mistake that costs less money than folding the best hand on the river but it happens over and over and adds up to brokski.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:47 PM   #11
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Well, that's what we all count on isn't it? It's such a given that I never even considered it as the largest mistake which, of course, it is.
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:12 PM   #12
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Peeling 4th with a rag when there are two other hands in the pot going both directions. It's so stupid, and you see the side swipe every time.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:25 AM   #13
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

  1. Playing too many hands.
  2. Not knowing the dead cards.
  3. Not playing high hands properly.
  4. Not playing enough high hands.
  5. Overvaluing bad Razz hands.
  6. Overvaluing xxA hands.
  7. Not limping enough preflop.
  8. Peeling 4th too lightly.
  9. Not putting the dead cards they know in play.

Last edited by Joe Tall; 10-08-2017 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:53 AM   #14
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

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[9]Not putting the dead cards they know in play.
What dos this mean?
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:20 AM   #15
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

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What dos this mean?
Counting the dead cards mindlessly and not knowing how to apply the information to their play
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:50 PM   #16
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack View Post
What dos this mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscillator View Post
Counting the dead cards mindlessly and not knowing how to apply the information to their play
Ah, thanks Osc, I get it. Or they only go half way, applying the dead cards to their own chances, but not using them to benchmark what their opponents may or may not be doing.

One of the ancient poker writers had a really good description of this. It may have been Morehead, but more likely it was Irv Roddy or John Fox.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:33 PM   #17
Howard Beale
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

How much of that applies to mid-limits? Most play bad and I hardly knew what in the heck they were thinking. And, in many years playing stud hi, there was a SINGLE time that I knew a player showing a 4-flush could not have a flush. Just ONCE!
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:26 AM   #18
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

People have said so many already in this thread but some of my own observations..

DON'T KNOW WHEN TO FOLD - by far the biggest leak in stud. Could be folding in 3, or folding on 4th when you catch bad and villain catches good. Could be folding on the river when you're never winning even if you're getting super odds. Learn to fold.

Picking up on players tendencies - Too many players play their own cards and are not noticing how loose a certain player is which affects their range and therefore your own continuation range. Or could be you notice a player folds often on 4th when they catch bad and you seemingly catch good. You pick up on these and your win rate will thank you.

Knowing who is in the game and when to quit - Maybe you're taking a shot at a higher limit because a bad player has jumped up there. You're playing the game but get unlucky and slightly stuck. The bad player busts and leaves. You're still there against tough regs but want to at least break even. You're no longer in a ev+ spot and is chasing. Just take the hit and shot take another better time.
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM   #19
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Checking dark on 7th. I do this all the time.

Here is example. 20-40 stud today. I start with 3 clubs. Call raise. Against Q of diamonds. Make King of diamonds. Opponent makes 7 of diamonds. He bets, I call.

I catch King of clubs (Kings and four flush) he caches 5 of hearts. I bet, he raises, I call.

I catch King of spades (open 3 kings) he catches a 5. I bet, he calls.

He has 2 diamonds, Q-7-5-5.

I checked dark. Afraid he was rolled up. If I make full house, I should bet, he might be rolled Queens. If I look and check, hard for him to bet. He knows I am probably never folding.

I checked dark letting him know I have only 3 kings at that point. He can't bet full house. I might catch and costs him 80. Of course, when he has full house, or makes flush, he has to call.

he muttered something about having pocket aces.

In that situation, I don't think I should ever bet 3 open kings if I don't improve. Thoughts? Maybe 10% of the time check raise a full house on river.

Now that I reevaluate the hand, I think betting in the dark would have been the right play.

Other mistake, calling when you have no idea what is going on. I don't play a ton of stud at Borgata.

Had split jacks with a 10 with a q, k, ace behind me. I limp.

Ace and Queen limp behind. Ace hit suited 3, Queen hit off suit 4. Ace checks to me, I lead. Queen calls, ace and bring in folds. Queen hits 7, I hit 5. She leads into me! What the hell could she have? Was so confused. Didn't know the player. Dumped there. Felt if I called $40 on Fifth I can never fold the hand and would cost me $120.

Not paying attention is another one. Was watching the football games, was last to go with 8-9-J two suited.

There was a raise from a Queen. had no idea if 7's, 10's 6's or other queens were live. Or my suit. Mucked. I think that is usually a call if that is the only Queen showing and the rest of my straight cards are live.

If a single 10 or 7 is gone, probably not worth a call, or my suit kind of beat. Not think this is a great hand against an open queen, but should be worth 3rd street call if 10's, 7's and other queens live.

Last edited by Professionalpoker; Yesterday at 10:13 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:42 PM   #20
Ray Zee
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

why cant he bet his full house if he makes it?

and he raised 4th against open kings with a q,7 showing? unless he hit 3 7's you have the best hand on 4th so i would reraise him unless he was a nut player.
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #21
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Please note, my strategy of play is pretty spewey till 5th street.

And try to keep a good attitude at the table and make others play spewey as well with good humor. Telling them I am on a flush draw when I call them on fifth and best be careful (rarely lie).

I don't maximize and will put people's ante up if they fold and give me a walk when I am the bring in.

I play to win, but also play for a friendly environment.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM   #22
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Ray Zee, I made open Kings on fifth. That is when he raised me. I called his bet on 4th with just 3 clubs. I made open kings and 4 clubs on fifth. He had no pair showing and two diamonds. And I suppose he can bet Queens full on 7th, but gets check raised if I make it. I think the right play was just to bet my 3 kings dark. He can never raise (unless aces full or quads) and I have to pay when he has queen full.
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM   #23
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

If you are the Ray Zee author, I bought your books!

Guessing you see many leaks in my game. Haha.

Thank you for all the money you saved me! I am right around break even player. I average around $2.25 an hour. With tips, drink and rake, think it is pretty good!
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Old Yesterday, 10:07 PM   #24
Ray Zee
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

thanks chris
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Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM   #25
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Re: Largest mistake you witness in stud/stud8???

Thank you!

Been playing in AC since 1999 (when I was 22.)

Used to play against Jerome Graham in those 10-20 stud games at the Tropicana. Glad he moved up, haha.

I make many mistakes, spew when I am winning, and tend to occasionally tilt (which is when I run to my video poker machines, cause 99% pay back is far better odds than playing crappy poker), but your books taught me enough fundamentals to enjoy the game, have a solid enough strategy to be a slightly winning player.

If not for your books, I would probably be homeless! That is overreach, haha, but I would have given up the game.

Probably spend on average, 300 hours a year playing casino poker. I know that is low number, but able to enjoy myself and not get my ass handed to me.
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