Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Stud Discussions of various forms of stud poker.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-30-2010, 05:53 PM   #751
RainmanTrail
grinder
 
RainmanTrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 518
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finknik View Post
I'm thinking of a different hand.
No, you're not. You're thinking of THIS hand, but you've altered the details so much that a completely standard hand now sticks out in your mind as this terrible terrible beat. You're 76 draw on 4th with a K brick on 5th somehow turned into you catching a 5 and my **9K2 somehow turned into **9K8. You even described the exact session it was from and named the third party villain involved. I found the hand, dug it up and LMAO when I saw what you were crying about. I posted the hand, and now you won't even admit that you were wrong, yet still berate my imaginary plays. These sorts of things happen when you post bad beat hand after bad beat hand on the forums and find yourself unable to be unaffected from taking one at the table. You will never advance as a poker player until you stop getting so hung up over bad beats... It's really affecting you whether you realize it or not. Even to the point of you lying to yourself about the fine details of the hand.

Last edited by RainmanTrail; 03-30-2010 at 05:59 PM.
RainmanTrail is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:02 PM   #752
RainmanTrail
grinder
 
RainmanTrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 518
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finknik View Post
Nah.. I 3-bet pre, showing him that I have a 3 card hand.
LMAO... well I guess that solves it.
RainmanTrail is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:07 PM   #753
RainmanTrail
grinder
 
RainmanTrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 518
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Oh balls, this is all content and I apologize but here goes.


You shouldn't make such an assumption, but if you are correct, it actually hurts your hand. When two hands share a dead card, the hand with the better rankings gains significantly in equity. Run some sims to see what I mean. You should always consider unseen cards unknown when making preliminary assessments.

Such guesses only matter (only improve your hand) if you can reliably put the Aces in the folded hands, not the live ones.
Excellent point, and good catch.
RainmanTrail is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:18 PM   #754
RainmanTrail
grinder
 
RainmanTrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 518
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Your equity position is extremely volatile on Third with so many little cards out. Fourth street will tell you so much, and usually give you either an easy fold or an opportunity to raise and shorten the field that folding this hand is very bad. Also, I think you are being overly respectful of opponents' ranges. You can be somewhat more realistic by opening their ranges up a little.

Your hot-and-cold equity on Third is of secondary importance while equity is so volatile. This hand is not going to remain multi-way for long (you shouldn't allow it to, I mean), and if you catch a good card you're either going to be able to get it heads-up on the next street or get a bunch of money in with a nice overlay. If you don't catch, you have a trivially easy fold.

In short, you have excellent implied odds and no reason to put another bet in if you don't have a good Fourth street situation. You should play here.
I had a tough time deciding what to do in this spot. It's still a bit murky to me. I like how you're approaching the hand though, at least you're not taking the... "easy call" or "easy fold" lines of reasoning. I applaud you for reasoning it out. I think I'm going to have to sit down and crunch this one out. FWIW, the reason I gave the 3rd and 4th raisers both 6- is because I have them both tagged as yellow on FTP which for me implies that they are super nitty. I assumed I was actually being generous by giving them 6- (and if I recall correctly, they both had 3 card wheels). I didn't want to continue in the hand if I ended up with A768 on 4th, and felt like I wouldn't be able to fold it because the pot was so big... one of my leaks. Anyhow, I decided to get away from it at the time. I'm still not convinced one way or the other yet... I'll do some deeper analysis and see if I come up with the same thing you have.

Thanks again for using logic rather than emotion in your response. Something the Stud community is severely lacking in at times.
RainmanTrail is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:41 PM   #755
Go Get It
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Posts: 12,429
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

[ ] Games are dead.
[x] was never scooping this



Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 Limit Stud Hi/Lo $0.50 Ante - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

3rd Street: (1 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx 7____Seat 1 folds
Seat 3: xx xx 3____Seat 3 raises____Seat 3 caps!
Seat 5: xx xx 6____Seat 5 folds
Hero: 4 5 2___Hero brings in for $1___Hero calls___Hero calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8____Seat 7 calls____Seat 7 folds
Seat 8: xx xx J____Seat 8 completes____Seat 8 3-bets____Seat 8 calls

4th Street: (13.333 SB) (3 players)
Seat 3: xx xx 3 9____Seat 3 raises____Seat 3 calls
Hero: 4 5 2 3___Hero 3-bets___Hero calls
Seat 8: xx xx J J____Seat 8 bets____Seat 8 caps!

5th Street: (12.667 BB) (3 players)
Seat 3: xx xx 3 9 5____Seat 3 bets____Seat 3 calls____Seat 3 calls
Hero: 4 5 2 3 A___Hero raises___Hero caps!
Seat 8: xx xx J J T____Seat 8 checks____Seat 8 3-bets____Seat 8 calls

6th Street: (24.667 BB) (3 players)
Seat 3: xx xx 3 9 5 6____Seat 3 calls____Seat 3 3-bets____Seat 3 calls
Hero: 4 5 2 3 A 9___Hero raises___Hero caps!
Seat 8: xx xx J J T K____Seat 8 bets____Seat 8 calls____Seat 8 calls

7th Street: (36.667 BB) (3 players)
Seat 3: xx xx 3 9 5 6 xx____Seat 3 calls____Seat 3 calls
Hero: 4 5 2 3 A 9 A___Hero raises all in
Seat 8: xx xx J J T K xx____Seat 8 bets all in

Spoiler:
Go Get It is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:49 PM   #756
Rush17
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Borgata/Parx
Posts: 5,974
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

^ you were definitely scooping it on 5th, plus, you were also on the one-outer freeroll to the steal wheel----don't forget about that.
Rush17 is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 08:04 PM   #757
Joe Tall
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Joe Tall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: @JoeTall
Posts: 16,925
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Where is Razz Pro?
Joe Tall is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 08:32 PM   #758
KenDoG_819
old hand
 
KenDoG_819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,274
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
Where is Razz Pro?
Busto ldo.
KenDoG_819 is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 10:33 PM   #759
finknik
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,268
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainmanTrail View Post
No, you're not. You're thinking of THIS hand, but you've altered the details so much that a completely standard hand now sticks out in your mind as this terrible terrible beat. You're 76 draw on 4th with a K brick on 5th somehow turned into you catching a 5 and my **9K2 somehow turned into **9K8. You even described the exact session it was from and named the third party villain involved. I found the hand, dug it up and LMAO when I saw what you were crying about. I posted the hand, and now you won't even admit that you were wrong, yet still berate my imaginary plays. These sorts of things happen when you post bad beat hand after bad beat hand on the forums and find yourself unable to be unaffected from taking one at the table. You will never advance as a poker player until you stop getting so hung up over bad beats... It's really affecting you whether you realize it or not. Even to the point of you lying to yourself about the fine details of the hand.

I'm thinking of a different hand.
finknik is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:42 PM   #760
Andy B
Your Ad Here
 
Andy B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Unregistering
Posts: 15,017
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Being busto does not prevent people from posting. It helps in my case. I mean, some cases.
Andy B is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:44 PM   #761
chromakey
adept
 
chromakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 993
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Shipped the 8:45 $22 Stud tourney on PS! </barg>
chromakey is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:28 AM   #762
Slowmash
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chromakey View Post
Shipped the 8:45 $22 Stud tourney on PS! </barg>
Well done!
 
Old 03-31-2010, 02:50 AM   #763
RandomUser
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 800
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Hitting quads in Razz. Was going to SIWAS, but villain would have called me down anyway.

Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 Limit Razz Tournament - t200/t400 Limit + t30 - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Seat 1: t2017 M = 3.95
Seat 3: t3457 M = 6.78
Seat 4: t1309 M = 2.57
Hero (): t4958 M = 9.72
Seat 6: t2550 M = 5
Seat 7: t6571 M = 12.88
Seat 8: t6280 M = 12.31

3rd Street: (1.05 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx 8____Seat 1 calls
Seat 3: xx xx J____Seat 3 brings in for $50____Seat 3 folds
Seat 4: xx xx A____Seat 4 completes
Hero: 5 3 5___Hero calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9____Seat 6 folds
Seat 7: xx xx 4____Seat 7 folds
Seat 8: xx xx T____Seat 8 folds

4th Street: (4.3 SB) (3 players)
Seat 1: xx xx 8 2____Seat 1 bets
Seat 4: xx xx A 9____Seat 4 folds
Hero: 5 3 5 6___Hero checks___Hero calls

5th Street: (3.15 BB) (2 players)
Seat 1: xx xx 8 2 4____Seat 1 calls
Hero: 5 3 5 6 2___Hero bets

6th Street: (5.15 BB) (2 players)
Seat 1: xx xx 8 2 4 J____Seat 1 checks____Seat 1 calls
Hero: 5 3 5 6 2 5___Hero bets

7th Street: (7.15 BB) (2 players)
Seat 1: xx xx 8 2 4 J xx____Seat 1 checks
Hero: 5 3 5 6 2 5 5___Hero checks

Final Pot: 7.15 BB
Seat 1 shows 3 A 8 2 4 J A (8,4,3,2,A)
Hero shows 5 3 5 6 2 5 5 (a pair of Fives)
Seat 1 wins 7.15 BB
RandomUser is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:21 AM   #764
djforever
grinder
 
djforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainmanTrail View Post
Probably for the same reasons I'm about to...
probably...
djforever is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 06:00 AM   #765
poofinger
adept
 
poofinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: @pooflinger
Posts: 912
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainmanTrail View Post
Congratulations, you sir are the founding member of my ignore list.

I don't know if you are really as bad as your posts here, I can't imagine you are. I'm convinced that you are intentionally misleading everyone here as a level to keep the games as soft as you can. Surely you're not as bad as you lead everyone here to believe by your posts.

FWIW, your betting line assessment accuracy ratio on 2+2 has to be around 5% correct... on a good day
.
This is nice stuff, not friendly but nice. Wanted to highlight the highlights, ended up with this.
poofinger is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 09:04 AM   #766
aufgeschwemm
banned
 
aufgeschwemm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: going east
Posts: 1,311
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

aufgeschwemm is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 11:51 AM   #767
skoldpadda
old hand
 
skoldpadda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a DFW novel
Posts: 1,644
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufgeschwemm View Post


Sinus rhythm, tachycardia.
skoldpadda is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 02:29 PM   #768
aufgeschwemm
banned
 
aufgeschwemm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: going east
Posts: 1,311
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

lol at btoulany calling AJ252 vs **A28
aufgeschwemm is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 02:53 PM   #769
aufgeschwemm
banned
 
aufgeschwemm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: going east
Posts: 1,311
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

me vs 2x2p2ler



Poker Stars $30/$60 Limit Razz $5 Ante - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

3rd Street: (0.5 SB)
Hero: 9 6 3___Hero raises___Hero calls___Hero calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4____Seat 5 3-bets____Seat 5 caps!
Seat 6: xx xx 7____Seat 6 brings in for $10____Seat 6 caps!____Seat 6 calls

4th Street: (12.5 SB) (3 players)
Hero: 9 6 3 J___Hero checks___Hero calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4 K____Seat 5 bets____Seat 5 calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7 7____Seat 6 raises

5th Street: (9.25 BB) (3 players)
Hero: 9 6 3 J 2___Hero bets___Hero 3-bets___Hero calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4 K Q____Seat 5 calls____Seat 5 calls____Seat 5 calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7 7 4____Seat 6 raises____Seat 6 caps!

6th Street: (21.25 BB) (3 players)
Hero: 9 6 3 J 2 7___Hero bets
Seat 5: xx xx 4 K Q A____Seat 5 calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7 7 4 J____Seat 6 calls

7th Street: (24.25 BB) (3 players)
Hero: 9 6 3 J 2 7 3___Hero checks
Seat 5: xx xx 4 K Q A xx____Seat 5 checks
Seat 6: xx xx 7 7 4 J xx____Seat 6 checks
aufgeschwemm is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 02:58 PM   #770
camz2895
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 7,263
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

b/f 7th. In this huge pot you will get all sorts of crying calls with worse hands
camz2895 is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:03 PM   #771
jbrennen
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: "quite good at the poker!"
Posts: 1,961
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by camz2895 View Post
b/f 7th. In this huge pot you will get all sorts of crying calls with worse hands
And if you fold 7th, you may get SIWAS'd to the tune of about $1500.
jbrennen is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:12 PM   #772
camz2895
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 7,263
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

haha meant to say b/c, surely no one b/f's here
camz2895 is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:19 PM   #773
TheYellow
adept
 
TheYellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 970
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

Why is calling third standard?

We're almost certainly in last place with two cards dead in a pot with only 3 antes and we're facing two bets cold.

Only good points I can see is that we have a good door card and the xx4 might raise with a worse hand or something.


Also is 5th standard?

I know about putting extra money in from the xx4KQ but we don't even have 33% in the pot. Although we increase to a 2 to 1 dog should he fold (unlikely) is it still worth it?
TheYellow is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:33 PM   #774
jbrennen
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: "quite good at the poker!"
Posts: 1,961
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

On 5th, I think Hero took the least desirable of his four reasonable lines -- I like check/call, check/raise, and bet/call all better than I like bet/raise.

When Hero decides to bet/raise, he has to assume that if the guy in the middle calls, this street is getting capped or at least 3-bet, and that's not good for Hero; as pointed out already, he doesn't even have 1/3 equity, and is a heads-up dog to Seat 6's range.

In order to maximize the chance that the guy in the middle folds, Hero needs to set him up to see two bets cold. Hero could check/raise here on 5th, maximizing the chance that the guy in the middle folds. Furthermore, if he check/raises, this street doesn't need to get capped; the cap bet would be on Hero, and he could refuse to put in the cap bet.

And if Hero goes for the check raise and it gets checked through, that's not awful; it also means that Hero is just about 100% sure to be the big equity favorite, and both opponents are drawing runner-runner just to beat Hero's made Jack low.
jbrennen is offline  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:37 PM   #775
camz2895
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 7,263
Re: Can we start March Low Content yet?

how is seat 6 drawing to runner runner to beat the J low?
camz2895 is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive