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Old 10-23-2017, 10:19 PM   #1
pokerchris
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Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

The way it is played at Parx is 4 down, 1 up, discard two, played hi low 6 way action.

I figure 3 wheel cards is a raise. 3 to a six is a raise (if you don't have stratigh potential, you have an ace). aces with a low card is a raise. 3 suited cards below 8 a call if it is scabby (like 8-5-2). Trips is a raise. Aces with a high card is a raise or a call depending on position.

Everything else is a fold on third.

Obviously, game conditions change everything, but looking for base guidelines. Am I on target?
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:47 AM   #2
Phat Mack
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Any qualifiers? Stakes?

Assuming an 8 for low, no qualifier for high, big pots, and my outs live, I'd raise with three to a str8 flush.

3 wheel cards I'd almost always play.

3 to a six I'd limp with if I had the best low draw in a multiway pot.

Aces with a low card I'd either snow with or muck.

Suited 8-5-2 is playable for small pots against donkeys unless you achieve a lock later. I wouldn't hesitate to muck it on 3rd.

Trip low cards can be playable. Trip high cards that don't fill can be whipsawed and free-rolled. High trips can be impossible to disguise. If astute players note that your full house outs are dead, you can lose a lot of money with them. A large portion of the money I've won at this game has come from players with rolled up high cards who couldn't stop pounding with them.

Aces with a high card are junk, but with an ace in the door can be played -- especially heads up against a poor player.

jmo
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:33 AM   #3
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

We play it differently in the UK.

Pot limit (ugh), with blinds (ugh), and you are dealt all cards face down on 3rd.

Betting on 3rd, then everyone left in the hand discards two, puts one up. PL Stud Hi/Low from there.

In that game high hands (AA/trips) are much more valuable due to the pot limit betting. But yeah in general, the way you guys play it, I think you need stronger starting hands than in regular Stud 8. Stuff like A27 or 3 to a 7 straight are not playable, and you can safely muck JJ+KK >95% (ok, a really high frequency) of cases.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:24 AM   #4
pokerchris
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Stakes are 10-20 with kill to 15-30. 8 or better qualifier for low, no qualifier for high. The game is played 8 handed with 2 people sitting out. It is half hour big o, half hour superstud.

Usually 2 really astute players, 2 less than average players and 4 people who understand concepts, but get out of line or do not play aggressive enough without the nuts.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:56 PM   #5
NedSchneebly
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

I have not played much superstud, but I agree mostly with OP. I would, however, come in for a raise with any 3 suited below an 8, especially if door card is low and if suits are live. I also can't imagine many situations where you would muck trips pre unless you believe another player has higher trips, or it is 4+ way for multiple bets vs 3 low doors. HU I would still defend my bring in with any remotely semi-connected low cards as well.
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Old 10-28-2017, 03:10 AM   #6
Ray Zee
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

after a period of time those type of changes turn into nit games as too strong of hands win all the pots. and the looser players get broke too quickly.
raising early does little as 4th street improves too many hands to monsters.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:45 PM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerchris View Post
The way it is played at Parx is 4 down, 1 up, discard two, played hi low 6 way action.

I figure 3 wheel cards is a raise. 3 to a six is a raise (if you don't have stratigh potential, you have an ace). aces with a low card is a raise. 3 suited cards below 8 a call if it is scabby (like 8-5-2). Trips is a raise. Aces with a high card is a raise or a call depending on position.

Everything else is a fold on third.

Obviously, game conditions change everything, but looking for base guidelines. Am I on target?
Chris, I wrote an intro article on this game that was originally published in the Two Plus Two Magazine. I have an article on there every month on a variety of games but after six months they get taken down so when that happens I post them on another site. Here is the link:

http://www.countingouts.com/super-st...or-better-101/

Anyhow if I had to guess more money is probably lost playing two aces than any other hand in that game.

I like the 852 suited especially if the eight is in the hole and my flush cards are live.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:50 PM   #8
pokerchris
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Very interesting. Didn’t really consider my folded cards as blockers! But evident! I will read your article in depth. Thank you for sharing! Low card pairimg improves pocket aces but total brick for most hands!

Last edited by pokerchris; 10-28-2017 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:59 PM   #9
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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Originally Posted by pokerchris View Post
Stakes are 10-20 with kill to 15-30. 8 or better qualifier for low, no qualifier for high. The game is played 8 handed with 2 people sitting out. It is half hour big o, half hour superstud.

Usually 2 really astute players, 2 less than average players and 4 people who understand concepts, but get out of line or do not play aggressive enough without the nuts.
I played in this for a little bit the other night waiting for PLO.

There is absolutely no reason for 2 people to sit out. We played eight in Vegas and maybe we had to reshuffle once or twice a night.

At most sit out one. If it is a Parx rule so be it, but I think some "genius" regs might have come up with that. But paying time, I would prefer to play.
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:28 PM   #10
pokerchris
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

I don’t criticize parx. Several things they do are dumb, but best room I play in. Next time you play plo make a funky raise and ask the dealer what pot is. Dime to doughnuts they will know! I don’t like the big o superstud game as it is breaking some of the 6 12 players, but if the loose players like it more I best learn it!
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Old 10-29-2017, 12:25 AM   #11
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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I don’t criticize parx. Several things they do are dumb, but best room I play in. Next time you play plo make a funky raise and ask the dealer what pot is. Dime to doughnuts they will know! I don’t like the big o superstud game as it is breaking some of the 6 12 players, but if the loose players like it more I best learn it!
Oh I wasn't criticizing Parx if that is a rule but I think it is likely it is something that some of the annoying regs insist upon
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:04 AM   #12
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Yes. I agree, it is dumb. You are probably right, a design created by annoying regs who think 6 handed gives them some sort of advantage.
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Old 10-29-2017, 10:39 AM   #13
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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Yes. I agree, it is dumb. You are probably right, a design created by annoying regs who think 6 handed gives them some sort of advantage.
Not sure the motive, maybe to just feel smart

Also the lady that would always cry and insist on people discarding as they put chips into the pot is one of the regs. I wrote about in my article.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:55 PM   #14
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I just wanted to clarify that I am one of those regs at Parx that plays 51 out of the 52 weekends that 10/20 BigOSS runs. Contrary to what was stated in here, the players are not happy with the 2 absent rule and that is something that Parx established over 2 years ago.
When the game first started running 3 years ago, it was actually in the form of a pure 10/20 mix including draw games and at that time we were dealing in 7 out of 8 players for every game. Eventually the game turned into consistently being just Bigo and SS due to popularity and Parx management decided to convert the game into only dealing in 6 out of 8 players. Ever since then we have tried speaking to management about eliminating one of the absent buttons or dealing 4 down, roll your own in order to deal in more players but to no avail.

If you have any more logistical questions about the game or would like to be added to the 10/20 GroupMe, please feel free to PM me.
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:03 PM   #15
YellowPanda
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
Not sure the motive, maybe to just feel smart

Also the lady that would always cry and insist on people discarding as they put chips into the pot is one of the regs. I wrote about in my article.
I know exactly who you are speaking of and don't worry, she is not "reg" enough to dictate discarding rules. We have fought long and hard with her on this and it is a battle she will NEVER win.
As long as you discard prior to 4th street, your hand is good to go.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:09 PM   #16
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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I know exactly who you are speaking of and don't worry, she is not "reg" enough to dictate discarding rules. We have fought long and hard with her on this and it is a battle she will NEVER win.
As long as you discard prior to 4th street, your hand is good to go.
maybe a couple of them complain, one of them I've played with a lot more and have a much improved opinion but on this one issue she was very annoying

I tried explaining that the bring in is completely random and thus your position relative to it is as well. Thus waiting until the end of 3rd can either help or hurt you in any one particular hand but it's random. Discarding as action unfolds is thus unnecessary, a ***** to continuously enforce, and can cause confusion at times with chips and cards flying in pot at same time.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:45 PM   #17
YellowPanda
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Re: Any thoughts on Super Stud Starting Hands?

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maybe a couple of them complain, one of them I've played with a lot more and have a much improved opinion but on this one issue she was very annoying

I tried explaining that the bring in is completely random and thus your position relative to it is as well. Thus waiting until the end of 3rd can either help or hurt you in any one particular hand but it's random. Discarding as action unfolds is thus unnecessary, a ***** to continuously enforce, and can cause confusion at times with chips and cards flying in pot at same time.

That is exactly what we tried to explain to her as well. She has recently stopped complaining about it as much since like I said, it's not something we are going to bend on. The game has been running for years in the same manner and no one has ever complained about it before. Also, since the game already moves at the pace of snails, we don't need to add another element of slowing down the action any further.
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