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Old 06-14-2017, 02:32 AM   #1
Captain R
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[7 8] 6

Live 12-24 Stud8

Seat 2: [X X] 2 bring-in
Seat 3: [X X] J folds
Seat 4: [X X] 6 completes. Player is a laggy 2+2er.
Hero : [78] 6
Seat 6: [X X] 4
Seat 7: [X X] T
Seat 8: [X X] 5
Seat 1: [X X] 7

We...??? Seems like all 3 options are viable. Players left to act are tight/solid players.

Try to get it HU? Fold because there are so many low cards out? Call and hope for a multiway pot and make a straight? We at least have the right up-card.
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:37 AM   #2
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Re: [7 8] 6

I wouldn't consider folding this strong a hand, particularly against the junk probably played by other at this stake, even though you say they are solid/tight.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:04 AM   #3
ChipsAhoya
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Re: [7 8] 6

I'd raise but I'm a laggy 2+2er
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:16 AM   #4
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Re: [7 8] 6

I'd fold.

Nearly every doorcard is something you need to improve to a winning high hand.

Two pair cards (6, 7), a critical straight card (5), a straight and low card (4), and an emergency straight card (T) are dead. That's a lot of dead cards.

You have the worst low draw, a low-card has already shown strength, and there are plenty of players left to act behind you.

You're drawing poorly to the high and worst to the low.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:47 AM   #5
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Re: [7 8] 6

Fold this and don't look back, door cards are unfriendly, we don't even have 2 of the same suit
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:00 AM   #6
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Re: [7 8] 6

This is a solid multiway hand despite being slightly dead. The 8 overcard is not insignificant for high and if you improve with a straightening card you won't mind being in a multiway pot. I would flat to minimize expense of seeing Fourth st, where there will be much more clarity in the value of your actual hand. On Fourth you should have very easy decisions and some extremely profitable situations.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:08 AM   #7
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Re: [7 8] 6

For the sake of argument, presume either the 4c or 5c plays with a low card range including low pairs and trips and the other folds:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
dead cards: J T 7 5
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
**2c18.38% 36,325132,00515261,533
22-AA, *s*s, $L$L 6s27.52% 63,040165,043427130,290
7c 6d 8h26.90% 61,552155,523502132,0991,041
$L$L 4c27.20% 63,662146,751276144,8881,117

We clearly have enough equity to see another card. The argument not to is that the situation is volatile. That would be my argument for doing so. The fourth card will usually stabilize the equities quite a bit.

I used a random card range for the 2c bring in because some people defend extremely wide and defining a defending range requires a lot of characters in the simulation. Here's what happens if the 2c folds:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
dead cards: J T 7 5 2
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
22-AA, *s*s, $L$L 6s33.60% 90,384211,487500138,653
7c 6d 8h33.73% 91,327200,495592149,951973
$L$L 4c32.67% 88,515187,329286153,640871
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:23 PM   #8
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Re: [7 8] 6

Snap re-raise. FWIW I'm calling and playing 875 and 763 hands here if ante is greater than or equal to 1/5 Small bet.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:07 PM   #9
electrical
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Re: [7 8] 6

Two-betting increases variance with no utility. No better low hands will fold, no good high hands will fold, as noted our equity is break-even vs ranges but will be much more clearly defined on Fourth. Calling and looking at the next card is pretty clearly the best option.
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:46 PM   #10
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Re: [7 8] 6

$2 ante, $3 bring-in.

Seems the advantage of raising is that we can represent a lot of stronger hands than we actually have and even seemingly bricks (T/9) are actually good cards for us. If we get it HU or 3-way, the other players are going to make mistakes vs. our actual hand. Which I think is where the money is.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:00 PM   #11
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Re: [7 8] 6

My main concern is we get additional action behind and get stuck in a bloated pot til the river with the worst of it
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:31 PM   #12
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Re: [7 8] 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Two-betting increases variance with no utility. No better low hands will fold, no good high hands will fold, as noted our equity is break-even vs ranges but will be much more clearly defined on Fourth. Calling and looking at the next card is pretty clearly the best option.
There is definitely value in getting your opponents to think your hand is stronger than it is, such that you may win unimproved. And certain better low draws may fold for 2.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:44 PM   #13
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Re: [7 8] 6

Obv out seat 4 and show results of hand. Also is this just stud8 or horse or O/E?

Also I think I flat, only reason to raise is to rep a wider range on later streets.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:13 PM   #14
Howard Beale
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Re: [7 8] 6

The day that I fold OP's hand for just a complete is the day I quit poker.

IMR, just do what electrical says.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:24 AM   #15
FRGCardinal
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Re: [7 8] 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsAhoya View Post
I'd raise but I final tabled the $10K HORSE for six figures this year
FYP
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:52 AM   #16
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: [7 8] 6

Based on your description of the player who completed and the players behind you, I'd raise to get it heads up.

If you do get it heads up and you catch better low on 4th you're in good shape, and if he catches good and you brick you can x/f and get on to the next hand.
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