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Old 07-12-2018, 04:21 PM   #1
scDaikiKaisho
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$100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Two hands from a mixed game. Being the very generous guy that I am, I'm learning Stud 8 at the $100/$200 stakes. So far, playing snug and only continuing with excellent initial holdings has been profitable. Below are two 3rd street spots where i'm unsure of how strong my initial holdings are.

Ante: $25
Bring-in: $25

Hand #1: 7-Handed I am last to act with [10J]K

Only 1 diamond is dead. The 3 completes and next player to act makes it 2 bets with the 7. It folds to me.

Is it ever correct to call 2-bets with my holding against 2 opponents with low potential? I would share more about my opponent's ranges if I knew them.

Hand #2: Game is now 5-handed and i'm becoming more uncomfortable with my lack of starting hand knowledge short-handed. It certainly seems as though several of the players have ramped up aggression on 3rd trying to isolate/ deny equity.

I am dealt [3A]3. Player to my left brings-in the 2, 1 fold, Villain #1 completes the A, Villain #2 raises the A.

2-Bets to me. What do I do?

I do fear that I am being run over and that both of my opponents can be quite wide in these spots. I am confident that Villain #1 is completing almost every ace as he has taken every opportunity to be aggressive. Villain #2 is new to the table and I am unsure as to how frequently he has split aces here.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:17 PM   #2
kisada
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

h1: i'd fold. against 2 lows i want actual SD value to start. i just don't think the hand is strong enough even though equity wise i'm guessing it's ok. for a complete yeah i might call but not 2 bets. and yeah it is sometimes correct to call 2 bets (or raise) if you knew they were 2 lows. like say you had KK*, you shouldn't really be going anywhere unless you were very unpracticed in how to play a high pair vs low hands.

h2: i'd fold. it's fine to defend lesser holdings when you think people are upping the aggression but this isn't the spot. those two aces out there are mighty good for your hand, and one of them just made it 2 bets.

besides the two A's out there, the other thing you'd wanna consider is what they are bringing along with them. even if you give the first A two random cards, the Ad is going to have a range that will have a high combination of WW|A, *A|A, LL|A, pairs 44-KK|A (gonna discount the 2 and the 3 since 2 bring in and you have 33) etc.

basically all the stuff the raiser has is hurting your hand because you need those cards, or you need an ace to make aces up and catch up to their overpair.

Last edited by kisada; 07-12-2018 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:38 AM   #3
RolldUpTrips
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Hand 1 it depends a little bit on the liveness of everything else, but in the majority of circumstances I would fold.

Hand 2 is a super slam dunk fold
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:11 PM   #4
electrical
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Hand two has very little value and is a zipgun fold.

Hand one I would fold some of the time, seldom against players who over-value razzy gapped low hands. Often you will need to do something later in the hand that involves a raise or c/r to clean up your scoop potential, and if you aren't comfortable doing that when necessary with a one-way hand then you should not get involved. Trying to keep it cheap and playing a hand like this passively multiway will not make the most of it. You will also brick off against threatening boards a lot and you'll have to fold, which can be irritating.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:03 AM   #5
kisada
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

last part is why i hate those hands

folding your OESD flush/straight draw on the river cause you can't beat ace high is the worst
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:51 AM   #6
/ / ///AutoZone
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

kqt hand seems close actually. you have around 32% equity 3ways with around .3 of a BB in immediate ev. these hands are tough to play tho and are hard to realize esp vs tough players that will jam you out with weak pairs.
this makes me think you should flat your big pairs too if you play hands like this. i'm not sure tho, i totally suck at this game.
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:39 PM   #7
electrical
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Quote:
Originally Posted by / / ///AutoZone View Post
...this makes me think you should flat your big pairs too if you play hands like this. i'm not sure tho, i totally suck at this game.
This hand isn't that different from something like (TT)K in the same spot. I mean, obviously it's different but not that different.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #8
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

In H2 if you had KK I would just be flatting because the original 3s is not folding and you want to see how the boards begin to run out as you may need be folding if the lows develop
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:26 PM   #9
kisada
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

raising in h1 is just bloating the pot with a pair. i'd flat also
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:19 PM   #10
Joe Tall
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Hand 1

This hand is reasonably close. If many lows folded, and s are 100% live, you can call. I'd like one more caller, where the hand was to be 3+ opponents holding lows, plus live s, and our highs to improve are live to see fourth.

Hand 2

Your hand is dead, clear fold.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:31 AM   #11
RolldUpTrips
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Quote:
Originally Posted by / / ///AutoZone View Post
kqt hand seems close actually. you have around 32% equity 3ways with around .3 of a BB in immediate ev. these hands are tough to play tho and are hard to realize esp vs tough players that will jam you out with weak pairs.
this makes me think you should flat your big pairs too if you play hands like this. i'm not sure tho, i totally suck at this game.
Yes, that's correct. There is only the bring behind you, so you're not really forcing anyone out and you're not really going to scare either player with your king. Get in raises later if the board breaks well for you and potentially fold around 5th if it breaks poorly
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:47 PM   #12
ninefingershuffle
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
Hand 1

This hand is reasonably close. If many lows folded, and s are 100% live, you can call. I'd like one more caller, where the hand was to be 3+ opponents holding lows, plus live s, and our highs to improve are live to see fourth.

Hand 2

Your hand is dead, clear fold.
+1. Id be calling Hand 1 in a lot of spots.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:02 PM   #13
ChipsAhoya
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Re: $100/$200 Stud 8 Basic 3rd Street Spots Facing 2-Bets

You should fold hand two, and if one isn’t comfortable playing hand one, one should get better at stud/8.
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