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Old 04-13-2020, 04:23 PM   #1
ceegee
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$1.50 Ante $3 Bring $10/$20 Razz: Two 5th street spots

I've gone back and forth on these spots in the past, and I find myself re-visiting them lately.
One thing to note is that this structure is very nitty. Not a lot of incentive to continue wide in most spots.

Hand #1
5th street is where I've bounced back and forth about calling and folding. I generally use the dead cards and my read on the player to make a decision here as I think it's very close. If the player is wide or the dead cards are in my favor I call, and fold if not. In this hand A, 4, and 5 are dead which is bad for me. I would understand folding is correct. Once we get to the river again I use my reads on player combined with dead cards. If I think villain will under-bluff river then I am happy to be folding, if I think villain will always bet river then I'm forced to call.

PokerStars, Razz Limit - $10/$20 ($1.50 ante) - 8 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

dolmren: $516.48 (52 bb)
afghan herat: $562.00 (56 bb)
gregor7878: $440.85 (44 bb)
WTFOMFGOAO: $667.26 (67 bb)
Ceegee87: $522.12 (52 bb)
DrGogo: $243.00 (24 bb)
zilbeee: $500.50 (50 bb)
jp_legacy: $491.55 (49 bb)

Third Street: ($12) Hero (Ceegee87) is in Seat 1
Xx Xx Kx jp_legacy bring-in $3____jp_legacy folds
Xx Xx Ax dolmren folds
Xx Xx 2x afghan herat folds
Xx Xx 4x gregor7878 folds
Xx Xx 8x WTFOMFGOAO raises to $10____WTFOMFGOAO calls $10
2x 6x 3x Ceegee87 raises to $20
Xx Xx 9x DrGogo folds
Xx Xx 5x zilbeee folds

Fourth Street: ($55) (2 players)
Xx Xx 8x 4x WTFOMFGOAO bets $10
2x 6x 3x Jx Ceegee87 calls $10

Fifth Street: ($75) (2 players)
Xx Xx 8x 4x Jx WTFOMFGOAO bets $20
2x 6x 3x Jx Tx Ceegee87 calls $20

Sixth Street: ($115) (2 players)
2x 6x 3x Jx Tx Qx Ceegee87 checks____Ceegee87 calls $20
Xx Xx 8x 4x Jx 8x WTFOMFGOAO bets $20

Seventh Street: ($155) (2 players)
2x 6x 3x Jx Tx Qx 7x Ceegee87 checks____Ceegee87 calls $20
Xx Xx 8x 4x Jx 8x Xx WTFOMFGOAO bets $20

Total pot: $195.00 (Rake: $3)



ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Dead - KA2495
600000 trials (randomized)


Our All-in Equity on 5th. The biggest issue here is that we won't realize a lot of it on 6th if we brick and are folding. Also the reverse implied odds of getting to showdown calling a bet vs a 9 or better.
All-in Equity
 Equity %Wins Lo %Ties Lo %Wins Lo CountTies Lo Count 
236JT37.7283%37.7190%0.0187%226314112 
{[a,2,3,4,5,6,7] [a,...62.2717%62.2623%0.0187%373574112 


Hand #2

Very similar to hand #1, however 6th street lands in our favor and it shows the good part of peeling. We get to the river and are forced to make another annoying decision. Will villain bluff at an equilibrium here? if not which way will he lean.

PokerStars, Razz Limit - $10/$20 ($1.50 ante) - 5 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

Ceegee87: $486.74 (49 bb)
4outs2full: $312.12 (31 bb)
zilbeee: $400.00 (40 bb)
karpuha: $270.50 (27 bb)
WTFOMFGOAO: $837.62 (84 bb)

Third Street: ($7.50) Hero (Ceegee87) is in Seat 1
Xx Xx Qx WTFOMFGOAO bring-in $3____WTFOMFGOAO folds
6x 8x 2x Ceegee87 raises to $10
Xx Xx Tx 4outs2full folds
Xx Xx Tx zilbeee folds
Xx Xx 8x karpuha calls $10

Fourth Street: ($30.50) (2 players)
6x 8x 2x Tx Ceegee87 bets $10
Xx Xx 8x 8x karpuha calls $10

Fifth Street: ($50.50) (2 players)
6x 8x 2x Tx Jx Ceegee87 checks____Ceegee87 calls $20
Xx Xx 8x 8x 3x karpuha bets $20

Sixth Street: ($90.50) (2 players)
6x 8x 2x Tx Jx 4x Ceegee87 bets $20
Xx Xx 8x 8x 3x Qx karpuha calls $20

Seventh Street: ($130.50) (2 players)
6x 8x 2x Tx Jx 4x Kx Ceegee87 checks____Ceegee87 calls $20
Xx Xx 8x 8x 3x Qx Xx karpuha bets $20

Total pot: $170.50 (Rake: $3)

Our all-in equity again is very similar.

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Dead - TTQ
1019 trials (randomized)


All-in Equity
 Equity %Wins Lo %Ties Lo %Wins Lo CountTies Lo Count 
682TJ39.4014%39.2542%0.2944%4003 
{[a,2,3,4,5,6,7,9][a...60.5986%60.4514%0.2944%6163 


How often do(es)
PLAYER_1 have hand vs. range equity of at least 35% on sixth street

54.9558% (560)



Thoughts? Do you always call 5th? If so how are you determining your bluff catching frequency by the river?

I feel that if you're calling 5th, you need to be close to perfect on the river in these spots in order to not fall into a largely -EV play vs a close to 0 EV or slightly winning play on 5th.
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:43 PM   #2
electrical
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Re: $1.50 Ante $3 Bring $10/$20 Razz: Two 5th street spots

What is your question in the first hand? You have a clear continue on Fifth. There are quite a few Sixth streets where you will be nutting him with a better redraw.

Hand two I also can't imagine folding the river vs an opponent who bluffs even the smallest percentage. Your river binks can be very good hands, but if he bricks he can't beat a Jack, so this is a spot where he should be getting raised a lot. It looks like a bad bet, and w/ some opponents those are often desperation bluffs.
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Old 04-23-2020, 08:15 PM   #3
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $1.50 Ante $3 Bring $10/$20 Razz: Two 5th street spots

In Hand 1, if you are planning on folding 6th you can calculate the probability that you will be able to continue on the next Street and then apply that to your 5th Street hot/cold. Then you just need to consider the impact of 7th Street play against this adjusted equity. And also some 6th Street implied where you have best hand and best draw.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:19 PM   #4
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: $1.50 Ante $3 Bring $10/$20 Razz: Two 5th street spots

In both these hands I think you can learn a lot by setting up a grid for 6th of all of the possibilities and probabilities associated with them, how often you will be able to continue, how often you will get a good peel and so on and so forth. Go further than just looking at 5th Street hot and cold imo
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