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Old 03-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #1451
jayrado
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Saturday daily deepstack tourney!! $175. 20k starting stack. 30 min levels. Super soft field. But as they say, the fish attract the sharks. It's been about 6 months since I played it, but I heard it usually gets about 150-180 entrants, with about $5k to 1st. Again, I haven't been up in a while, so I dunno how it's been lately, but I'm going this Saturday! I had the pleasure of chopping once (humble brag) when it got down to 4 people. $3k each. That was around 10-11pm. Limited sample size (about 3 times) but the structure is nice. You don't feel rushed. Like most tournies, everyone was pretty short towards the end. When we chopped, we all had about 20bb. GL HF
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:06 PM   #1452
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

I searched this thread for "mist night club" and "mist" and it returned no results.

Anyone checked out the night club?
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:43 AM   #1453
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Winstar personnel either incompetent or don't like visitors

I played in this poker room the day after the Super Bowl and the following day. When I used to visit friends in Dallas we regularly went up to play in the tournaments for many years.

I was playing in the afternoon NLH tournament. Then this happened: it was heads-up after the flop, I was first to act and checked, the other player bet, I called, I checked the turn and the other player also checked, the river gave me a runner-runner nut flush, I checked (hoping for a check raise situation) and the other player checked, I turned over the nut flush (I had the K, the A was on the board and the flush was the nuts) and the dealer called the floor.

The dealer explained exactly what happened and the floor person gave me a warning saying if I checked the nuts again I would receive a 20 minute penalty. The floor called it "chip dumping"!

They do this they said because they "did not know me or the other player".

OK, I can understand if I had been last to act and checked the nuts, but I was first to act. So because "they don't know me" they are going to take away a major strategy tool like check raising. Bull****!

If I had been in collusion with the other player (I had never seen this person before in my life nor since and have no idea who this guy was) it would have been "soft playing" and NOT "chip dumping". At least know what you are talking about.

So beware if you are visiting this poker room and expect to be treated poorly. I ended up fourth and cashed but I will never play here again.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:06 AM   #1454
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I forgot to mention

Besides the BS about not allowing unknowns to check-raise the nuts I also forgot the extremely unfriendly and bored dealers and podium personnel.

I went to the podium to ask about the buy in for the PLO game. The buy in is fairly important for any pot limit game. The one's I am used to have a minimum of $500 to $1000 up to 75% of the largest stack on the table.

The man at the podium told me he didn't know what the buy in was as "I wasn't here when the game started" and then he went back to the computer. NO, "I'll find out" or "You can go ask at the table". Nothing! I know I may not look like money but still, his first job is customer service and he sucked at that.

During live play one of the dealers completely ignored any questions or comments I had (I was in seat 5 right across from him) and another dealer kept resting her head on her hands between pitching and didn't even look at what was going on.

This place has really gone downhill in the last few years.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:42 PM   #1455
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

You are absolutely correct. You should only be "at fault" if you were last to act and checked back. And I completely agree with the podium personnel. Always the FML attitude and demeanor. As for the dealers, I've never had a bad experience with them. I've encountered at least 20-30 dealers and they've all been good, sometimes funny.

I just learned something about Winstar on my recent trip. I was an alternate for the Saturday $175. You have to post like in a cash game when you come in! Actually, scratch that. New players in most cash games (including Winstar) don't have to post when they come in. I was middle position when I sat down. Blinds were 200/400 with a 50 ante. I threw out a 500 chip for the ante because they only give big chips to alternates. Left 50 for ante and gave me 50 back. When I tried to reach for the 400 change, he said no that stays. The full blame is not on the dealer, because he didn't make the rules, but he should at least give me a heads up on this unconventional rule. It's unconventional in my eyes because I've late regged in many tournies around the country and I've never seen that.

Just a warning! I still like everything else about the Winstar poker room. Lots of tables. Relatively clean. Soft fields in tournies and cash. Happy hunting!
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:11 PM   #1456
boydstun
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Was thinking about playing in this Saturday's tournament, any of you guys play it recently- what kind of turn out should I expect being Easter weekend?
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:19 PM   #1457
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

I see the post a few up from last month, just wondering if anyone played it recently
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:08 AM   #1458
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

I'm here a hour before cards fly- only 8 registered as of now, she said it normally gets over a 100
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:46 PM   #1459
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

128 was the number of runners for this Saturday
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:25 PM   #1460
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

I have played tournaments in most parts of America and in Macau and I have never seen anyplace that requires alternates to post. Of course had you been in from the start but not seated you would get blinded off. But no place have I ever seen rebuys or alternates having to post. I have heard from a couple of poker room managers (one in LV and one in OK) that the current manager of this poker room had no experience before getting the job. He is supposedly a relative of one of the tribal chiefs. I don't know if it is true but it would explain some of the messed up rules of this poker room.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:59 PM   #1461
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Hi, I'm a former internet low stakes NLHE MTT grinder. I was only able to play for about 10 months before Black Friday, but during this time I grinded my bankroll from $37 to around $12000, playing about 20 hours a week. My hourly was around low 20s when Black Friday hit and I was still improving. I believed then and believe now I have the skill to succeed at higher stakes both online and live. Being an American, it seems my only real choices are live play.

For various reasons I'd rather not go into, I don't do well in traditional 9 to 5 day jobs. I love playing poker and improving my game and would have moved to Vegas right after Black Friday if my (ex)-wife would have let me. Now I'm finally sufficiently bankrolled and have no one to stop me. I also have degrees in mathematics and computer science as well as some industry certifications that I can fall back on in the unlikely event I bust out. And yeah, theoretically I could make a lot more money with a tech job but, thinking about having such a job 9 to 5 makes me want to pound my head into a wall until I'm unconscious. So, moving on...

I was considering mainly Vegas vs. South Florida but someone mentioned the Winstar, which I'd never heard of (super out of touch with casinos), and it turns out it's just 3 hours away.

I have saved roughly $24,000 for estimated yearly living expenses, and about $11000 saved (separate from the 24000) for my bankroll.

I want to play 1/2 or 1/3 until my bankroll is at least 15000, then start taking shots at 2/5, and transition permanently to 2/5 once my bankroll is 25000 (dipping back down to 1/3 if I run bad). So I have some questions about Winstar and how well it would work for someone starting a poker career to move to Gainesville TX (10 min South) and just grind 40 hours a week.
  1. Are 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 games always running? I'm most concerned about the first two but would hope 2/5 games would be running almost always.
  2. How soft are these games compared to other locales like Vegas?
  3. What is the rake structure? I read 10% capped at $5 somewhere, which sounds reasonable. Are there "drops" or jackpots or other weird forms of rake? And what about parking--is that free and if not, how expensive?
  4. Are table waiting times consistently low?
  5. At say 1/2 what is the percentage of regs? In Vegas I hear it's 65-70 percent. It's gotta be way way lower here due to the remote locale.
  6. Are there a lot of big fish / whales at 2/5 and up?
  7. What are estimated hourlies for a solid player at 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 here?
  8. I know the place is open 24/7, but is there enough action to play at night? I am a night owl and one big positive of Vegas is the games are softer at night. When are the games softest here?
  9. Are there regular tournaments and are they beatable? If so estimated hourly? I am actually a better tournament player than cash, but not really rolled for it yet. Still, I'd like to play the occasional tournament if it's +EV
  10. And finally, I have several questions for anyone in this thread doing what I'm suggesting, i.e., living in Gainesville and grinding at Winstar 40 hours a week. If so, what kind of problems do you run into? What are the pitfalls of only having one casino to play in? What is living in Gainesville like? What is rent like up there? What kind of hourly do you make?

Anything else I didn't think of but should know what be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much, and sorry for so many questions!
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:01 PM   #1462
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

1/2 1/3 and 2/5 run pretty much 24/7. Maybe break at like 5am on weeknights.

$1 drop before cards are dealt.

Pretty much no pros at 1/2, I play 1/3 and maybe there's 1 other competent player at the table.

Saturday tourney is good and worth playing.

Lot of regs at 2/5 but very beatable.

Gainesville is a pretty dumpy, cheap town AFAIK.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:36 AM   #1463
Shai Hulud
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

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1/2 1/3 and 2/5 run pretty much 24/7. Maybe break at like 5am on weeknights.

$1 drop before cards are dealt.

Pretty much no pros at 1/2, I play 1/3 and maybe there's 1 other competent player at the table.

Saturday tourney is good and worth playing.

Lot of regs at 2/5 but very beatable.

Gainesville is a pretty dumpy, cheap town AFAIK.
So they take 10% capped at $5, PLUS a $1 drop? Or is it just the drop? Frankly I don't understand non-percentage based rake structures and have never played any.

Is there a drop every hand or just if there's a flop? If every hand it seems excessive, especially if combined with the percentage rake. Some casinos have some very rough, almost unbeatable rake structures (like any California casino for 1/2 games).

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of hourly do you average at 1/3? And it sounds like you don't live in Gainesville. Do you just drive there a lot? I'd guess Dallas and OKC would be where most of the players are from.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:48 PM   #1464
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

$1 drop before cards are dealt on every hand. Plus $5 rake (10% up to $5)

Pretty much everyone is from Dallas. (Okc has casinos)

I drive and stay the night sometimes. After you've been playing regularly for a couple weeks or maybe months its not too hard to get a comp room ($10 resort fee) Sunday-Thursday)
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:14 PM   #1465
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

no one from okc is going there. there are nice options much closer such as riverwind. the 1/2 and 1/3 games are nitty as **** most the times and because of the 100bb max buy in you can't come in deep. the 2/5 can be profitable for sure. they also run a 1/2/5 plo mix game daily which is the same faces every day but still soft. may be the nittiest 1/2 game on the planet most of the time. but games running 24/7. do not live in gainesville. at least live in denton which is a college town. most dealers very competent but both dealers and floor dgaf is the attitude. great poker room but i would rather eat glass than play 1/2 there. 1/3+ only games i would sit if i were you.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:17 AM   #1466
Shai Hulud
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

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$1 drop before cards are dealt on every hand. Plus $5 rake (10% up to $5)

Pretty much everyone is from Dallas. (Okc has casinos)

I drive and stay the night sometimes. After you've been playing regularly for a couple weeks or maybe months its not too hard to get a comp room ($10 resort fee) Sunday-Thursday)
So if it folds to the blinds they still take $1 from every person? Maybe I'm not understanding the drop correctly, but if so, that seems ridiculously high rake.

Where the customers are from are immaterial really. I was just musing about that. I mean how does a casino in the middle of nowhere become one of the biggest in the world? I guess it's just more evidence that Texans want to gamble even though we can't even play Texas Hold 'Em. Bingo parlors everywhere, and state lotteries though. I don't get it.

Are comps transferable? I would be living in Gainesville probably, but might like family to come visit to a comped room.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:28 AM   #1467
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

No not from every person. It's a $1 per hand drop for promotions / bad beat jackpot. In 1/2 and 1/3 they drop the small blind before cards are dealt.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:36 AM   #1468
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

$1 from small blind drop, not from every player.

You yourself have to check in to your comped room, not transferable.

Get a $8.80 comp if you play for 4hours. Good at any restaurant, but only good for 24hours. Can't accumulate them.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:05 AM   #1469
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Just for clarification. Its $1 dollar preflop drop which is the small blind and a $5 dollar rake, so $6 total for max rake. You could live in Denton its only about 30 minutes without traffic. There isn't much in Gainseville but they do have a big Apartment complex being built right on HWY 35. Oh and they have a schlotsky's coming.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:00 AM   #1470
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Thanks for clarifying about the drop. So, say we're playing 1/2. If I'm in the BB, a guy in EP limps, SB folds, I raise, and EP folds, does that mean the house collects $1 or all of it?

@justscott

Thirty minutes is doable but I looked it up on Google Earth and it says 45 minutes?
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:20 AM   #1471
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

It'd be just the $1, rake is 10%. if there were 5 limpers ($10) they'd take another $1
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:14 AM   #1472
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

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It'd be just the $1, rake is 10%. if there were 5 limpers ($10) they'd take another $1
Okay, I understand. They only take an additional 10% if there is $10 or more in the pot. I'm still unclear with how places deal with like a $25 pot (do they take $2 or $3?) but I think I get the gist. Thanks.

I must sound like such a noob. Online I didn't even think about the rake. It was just automatically taken from pots. Also quite low as I recall. Man I wish I could move to Canada...I'd rather play online than live honestly. It's so much simpler logistically.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:49 PM   #1473
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 are almost always running until early morning on weekdays (3-5 am) Games are pretty soft. I play mainly 1/3 and sometimes dabble into 2/5. Not very many pros at 1/3, most of them are playing 2/5 or higher. There are a handful of decent players at 1-3, and very very very few crushers. There's always fish/whale, even at the 5/10 level... but that's usually only on weekends.

IMO, the tournaments are bad, the structures are horrible and it's a BINGO fest after a couple levels. If you want to play tourneys, try to weekend ones which have a better structure. Gainesville is a pretty small town and doesn't have much.

Last edited by VQ37; 04-22-2017 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:56 AM   #1474
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
... [*]Are 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 games always running?
During normal hours, I would say there is at least one 1-2 or 1-3 game. It's very rare when you will not find a min stakes game running. On a given weeknight, you should find 2-3 of these games running (that is, 1-2 and/or 1-3), maybe one or two 2-5 games, and perhaps a 5-10+ game (these are relatively common). So, yes, there is almost always a game running. It's pretty dependable, I would say.

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
...
How soft are these games compared to other locales like Vegas?
Depends on who you ask, but.... from my biased perspective, I would say the 1-2 and 1-3 stakes are tougher than an average, run-of-the-mill Vegas game. The reason is the regulars. There are lots of them. Remember, only one big room in the area, so you will see a lot of the same faces. At the same time, you do get a decent number of tourists and semi-regs, which makes for non-reg-soaked games. Again, just my opinion. Having been to Vegas only a few times and to Winstar a lot, I have to say that, on average, the small stakes games at Winstar are slightly tougher than Vegas. (I know many will disagree and say that's stupid; but again, just my opinion.)

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
...
What is the rake structure? I read 10% capped at $5 somewhere, which sounds reasonable. Are there "drops" or jackpots or other weird forms of rake? And what about parking--is that free and if not, how expensive?
Ya, I think it's 10% capped at $5. There is the Bad Beat jackpot, which means every small blind ($1) is deposited into the drop which accumulates into a larger pot for the Bad Beat, which is when quads or better get beat the loser of the hand gets 50% of the pot, the winner of the hand gets 30% of the pot, and the table splits the remaining 20% of the bad beat jackpot. The bad beat jackpot starts at $20k and accumulates from there; a few weeks ago, it got as high as about $80k before somebody hit it, and that is considered high.

Yes, parking is free. And the poker room is pretty close to the parking lot. No issues there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
...
Are table waiting times consistently low?
Ya, they do a fair job of getting tables filled with a list. However, on busy nights (Friday-Saturday), the list can grow to 20-30-40-50 people or so and can be anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour and a half. That was the longest I ever had to wait (hour and a half) after having played there probably a hundred times or so.

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...
At say 1/2 what is the percentage of regs? In Vegas I hear it's 65-70 percent. It's gotta be way way lower here due to the remote locale.
Percentage of regs is high. I would guess somewhere around 55-75% on any given 1-2 table. Add more to the perecentage for any higher stake games. The regs are common in this room. And I've heard whispers of collusion, but cannot confirm it actually happens. After you sit for half hour or so, you'll know the regs. I would say, though, that they are relatively quiet - much quieter than Vegas regs, from what I've noticed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
...
[*]Are there a lot of big fish / whales at 2/5 and up?
Not sure. I don't play 2-5+. But from what I see, they look to be reg-grinder types.

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...

I know the place is open 24/7, but is there enough action to play at night? I am a night owl and one big positive of Vegas is the games are softer at night. When are the games softest here?
Not sure about the night action, but I would say you'll get at least one to two tables on an overnight run on a given night. But not for the 2-5+ stakes --- you will probably only find 1-2 and maybe a 1-3 game playing overnight. Softest games? Definitely Thursday-Friday-Saturday nights. That's when a lot of tourists, semi-regs, and DFW players roll in.
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Old 04-25-2017, 02:08 AM   #1475
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Re: Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK)

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During normal hours, I would say there is at least one 1-2 or 1-3 game. It's very rare when you will not find a min stakes game running. On a given weeknight, you should find 2-3 of these games running (that is, 1-2 and/or 1-3), maybe one or two 2-5 games, and perhaps a 5-10+ game (these are relatively common). So, yes, there is almost always a game running. It's pretty dependable, I would say.
Thanks. This is helpful and I really appreciate you answering my questions point by point like this. I'm planning making a 4-5 day run at Winstar probably week of May 1. I may come back in another week or two if I don't hate the place, then would move in about a month after. Main markets I'm looking at now are Vegas, Winstar, and Tampa. Vegas seems like I'd enjoy living there the most but I'm not a big party type so it's not that big a deal. I'm mostly concerned about bottom line, and Winstar is a much easier move since I'm in the Killeen area right now.

Quote:
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Depends on who you ask, but.... from my biased perspective, I would say the 1-2 and 1-3 stakes are tougher than an average, run-of-the-mill Vegas game. The reason is the regulars. There are lots of them. Remember, only one big room in the area, so you will see a lot of the same faces. At the same time, you do get a decent number of tourists and semi-regs, which makes for non-reg-soaked games. Again, just my opinion. Having been to Vegas only a few times and to Winstar a lot, I have to say that, on average, the small stakes games at Winstar are slightly tougher than Vegas. (I know many will disagree and say that's stupid; but again, just my opinion.)
Huh...this is contrary to what I've heard from everyone else who commented on Winstar. Well, some did say there were a lot of regs but that the regs were almost universally bad at 1/2 and 1/3, and that the Vegas games are tougher. I've heard so much contradictory information, though...hard to tell what's true. My visit should at least clarify whether those games are mostly regs and also to some extent whether they're regfish or more professional grinder types.

Quote:
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Ya, I think it's 10% capped at $5. There is the Bad Beat jackpot, which means every small blind ($1) is deposited into the drop which accumulates into a larger pot for the Bad Beat, which is when quads or better get beat the loser of the hand gets 50% of the pot, the winner of the hand gets 30% of the pot, and the table splits the remaining 20% of the bad beat jackpot. The bad beat jackpot starts at $20k and accumulates from there; a few weeks ago, it got as high as about $80k before somebody hit it, and that is considered high.
Do they take the 10% every hand or just when there's a flop? Also, I hate bad beat jackpots but at least there's some chance of the $1 drop not being a total waste. Personally I'd be a lot happier if rooms would stop with all their promotional BS and just charge less rake.

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Yes, parking is free. And the poker room is pretty close to the parking lot. No issues there.
Thanks. This is an area where Winstar is definitely better choice than Vegas, as I think now all the casinos on the strip charge close to $20 for parking, though for MGM and Caesar's if you get their rewards cards you can eventually get free parking.

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Ya, they do a fair job of getting tables filled with a list. However, on busy nights (Friday-Saturday), the list can grow to 20-30-40-50 people or so and can be anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour and a half. That was the longest I ever had to wait (hour and a half) after having played there probably a hundred times or so.
This of course is something I would worry about as a reg, especially since as I understand it Winstar doesn't do phone-in waiting lists. It would suck to live 10 minutes away but constantly be waiting half an hour or more to get seated.

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Percentage of regs is high. I would guess somewhere around 55-75% on any given 1-2 table. Add more to the perecentage for any higher stake games. The regs are common in this room. And I've heard whispers of collusion, but cannot confirm it actually happens. After you sit for half hour or so, you'll know the regs. I would say, though, that they are relatively quiet - much quieter than Vegas regs, from what I've noticed.
That percentage seems hard to believe. Are the regs all coming from DFW? I can't imagine that many live in Gainesville. And an important distinction I asked earlier, but I'll ask again--are these mostly regfish or winning players?

Quote:
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Not sure. I don't play 2-5+. But from what I see, they look to be reg-grinder types.
That does seem to be the case just about everywhere at 2/5. Oh well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasKK View Post
Not sure about the night action, but I would say you'll get at least one to two tables on an overnight run on a given night. But not for the 2-5+ stakes --- you will probably only find 1-2 and maybe a 1-3 game playing overnight. Softest games? Definitely Thursday-Friday-Saturday nights. That's when a lot of tourists, semi-regs, and DFW players roll in.
Sundays are no good? As far as night action right now I'd be satisfied if I could grind 1/3 5 nights a week for 6-8 hours at a time.

Thanks again. Looking forward to checking it out myself first week of May. I'm irrationally nervous due to my tiny volume of live play compared to online. I think I can separate the fear from my play though. I'm not going to be scared money.
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