I have heard about them going to an hourly comp soon for about 3 years now.
So if it is a gradual transition, they are doing one hell of a job.

P.S. That $1 snatched off the table before the cards are dealt is for the bad beat jackpot, or required by state law, depending on who you ask.

Ok, so we should just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that it will NOT happen anytime soon. The way they handle this really perterbs me. It seems like they would want to incentivize players to become regulars.


Doesn't most of it go to the state and a small percentage goes to the badbeat jackpot? BTW, isn't the casino on a reservation? How does state law apply? As a native Texan I was taught in school that it had something to do with Oklahoma settlers stealing dirt

Yah, that's why I always try to get it all in with the worst of it so that I never have to worry about someone sucking out on me.

I was under the impression that most of these were 1/2. How many are 2/5? For instance, if there are 40 tables, are thirty-six 1/2 and four 2/5 or is it more like thirty vs ten?

Thanks every1 for the advice. My game of choice online is 6-max, so all live poker is a bit nitty to me. Does anyone know the percentage of pros at 2/5? Like, with a table of 9 are there 3 pros, 3 solid regs, and 3 recreational? If it's mostly pros, i'm gonna feel bad because I know these people depend on this moneys. I guess the ones that lose money can drop down to 1/2 but it still doesn't sit all that well with me.

Kind of. Except you got it backwards. A small percentage goes to the State.
It's called an Income Tax. They pay 1.5% on their first 100 million. I think it jumps to 2% on the next 100 million. Factor in License Fees, and other State charges, and they pay an effective tax rate of about 17% on income.

So that $1 snatched before a dealer will even think about throwing out some cards? .17 cents goes to the State. .73 cents the Indians can do what ever they want with it.

And yes, the casino is Indian run on Indian Land. The State has no requirements on how they run their games, when they take rakes, what the rake should be, or anything like that. That is all regulated by the Tribe itself.

As long as the State gets it's taxes paid on the income, they could care less if there is a bad beat jackpot, or not, or if they started charging you a $20 entry fee just to walk into the room

--- And I am sure you would hear that it is required they charge you $20 to walk in, that the money is split with the State, and some unknown amount is used for player promotions and jackpots.

IMO, coming from a 6max online background pre black friday, it's 1 nitty pro, 2 decent regs, 3 bad regs, 2 fish, 1 totally clueless player on average.

On the weekends, I think the 2/5 plays like a 1/2. Also, why do you feel bad for beating people at poker? It's their choice to play.

You know, I have never really taken a super close look at the ratio - I think it depends on what people are asking. In my mostly weekend experience, there is always more 1/2 games than 2/5. That being said, if I had to guess, I would estimate that on a busy, mostly packed weekend, the ratio would be closer to your 30 / 10 ratio. I really can't guess how things are during the week or during the slow periods on the weekend. Maybe someone who plays more regularly than I do will have a more accurate idea and reply.

Oh wow. So, I guess a lot of these terms are subjective. You clearly have a lot more experience than me so I'll just simplify this and say it sounds like there are 3 players that make a profit and the rest are losing players (to varying degrees).

Well, in that case all I need is a chip, a chair, and a bankroll.

You make a good point. It's just that some of these people have kids and mortgages and medical bills etc and all I am is just a kid that happens to be very good at teh pokerz. I guess I envision a player like Jean Robert Bellande reduced to having to beg for money because he has no bankroll, and if I play at winstar enough that player is even going to beg me for money. Then I'm gonna feel doubly bad 'cause my momma always said that I should never lend money to a degenerate poker player.

Thanks for the information.

I like to valuate all of my future earnings and use that to set attainable targets for the future. Given that, i would also like to know about 5/10. My vision for it is that there are like 8 pros , all frothing at the mouth waiting for the whale to sit down. These guys are the best of the best in Oklahoma...Oklahoma's version of the Big Game (Oklahoma Dolly, Barry, Antonious, Benyamine, Giang, Harman, Seed, and Oppenheim) all waiting to take my moneys. Is this a fair assessment of 5/10 at Winstar? Is it the pinnacle of poker there?

not even close

I guess I shouldn't say much since I've never actually played 5/10, but it's far from all sharks, especially on the weekends. I guess during slow times during the week, the game is probably not very good. But friday and saturday it's not that different from 2/5. Just instead of 1 or 2 "pros"/decent players like a 2/5 game, there's probably 3 or 4.

For whatever it's worth. I know a guy that is a regular/pro in that game and he told me that most people play pretty bad in the 5/10.

I have been listening to Bart Hansons duece plays for a while and he is a regular in the 5/10 at commerce. He talks about many hands from his sessions and I imagine the level of play there at the 5/10 is similar to Winstar. Very few solid players, lots of nits you can take advantage occasionally, your average rec player that gets attached to TPTK you can value town, and the occasional total drooler. Basically you can play solid ABC TAG poker and win. You will never really know until you play in it yourself though.

Thanks for all of the advice. You are all very helpful!

I know a guy that plays 5/10 at the commerce. He is a losing player online but does very well in that game. I assumed that 5/10 was so juicy at the commerce due to location and # of tables. I figured Winstar only has like one or two 5/10 games going so it must be filled with the best of the best.

I *used* to play 5/10 a couple of weekends a month, then only once in a while, before I stepped down to 2/5 due to bankroll issues and me only being an average player. My experience was nothing like you are envisioning.

It has been a couple of years since my 5/10 days, but at that time, there were always 2-3 5/10 tables on Sat and Sun afternoons. The first one was the main table and the other 2 were "must move". So, think of it as a Sat or Sun with 20 (if really busy 30) folks playing 5/10, and a waiting list, working their way to the main table. Many more people busted out than made it to the main table by late evening. And after several hours, the 1st must move had become the 2nd main table because people were not cycling through quickly.

Yes, there were a handful of solid regulars that always made a profit every single weekend that I played. However, there were also the regulars that did ok, and some regulars (like me) that were winners one week and a loosers the next, but there were FAR more people cycling through and donating to the rest of us.

Like I said before, this experience was like 2 years ago and things are surely somewhat different now. When I go up to play 2/5 (pretty rarely this entire year) I still see a few of those solid regs. However, I don't recognize many of the faces. So, it could be a pretty different dynamic these days than what I have described.

Maybe if you go play, you can post about your experience / assessment about how things are now. Either way, good luck.

5/10 is my main game, I blog about it on ultimategrinders.com . You can PM me for any details you want. I have some opinions I don't want to just go blurting out right now. Just like everything else in poker, when it comes to table selection/game selection/and profitability it all "depends."

Anyone have any thoughts about the $440 tournaments coming up this sunday? Anyone playing? Not playing? I am playing and hoping for a good turn out

havent heard about it.

anyone had details?

Flyer I saw a couple weeks ago said 5k starting stack with 30 min levels. Don't remember he level jumps.

Im going out there on friday to play the friday weekly tourney. Ill pick up a flyer with level info and everything

just moved down to dallas a month ago and will be heading out tomorrow to play in the PLO game. any of you guys play it?

Ya I used to play it quite often. Usually on weekdays its a lame 1/2/5 high-low game. But I was there until about four today and they just opened up a 2/5 PLO game which are always great. always at least 10k at the table or more. Lots of action with good/aggressive players. Lots of fun and even more action.

Anyone have the structure for tomorrow's tourney?

Ya its 5k starting stack with 30 minute levels. But they added a bunch of levels compared to the friday tournaments so should be pretty good.

So how's the tables been treating you guy's? I have been crushing it. $$$

Does anyone know if Winstar is looking into hooking up their newly installed Bravo system to the Bravo Poker Live app? I've been talking to the head guys at Choctaw and they are working on getting up and running soon with it.

Anybody know if the wednesday before thanksgiving will have a weekend sized crowd? Also, will 35N be grid locked because of travel?