Interesting spot .. like the Lions, always something new. Couple of things ...

1) It's not uncommon for 'the floor' to move on down the list of players when calling names. 2 minutes does seem a bit unfair for them trying to start 2 tables, but once a floor gives a seat it should be final. Hopefully you were 'still' at the top of the waiting list of alternates.

2) Having no floor for a tournament is not wise. There should always be a floor .. and if that floor is dealing then action should stop while the issue is resolved.

3) Hard for them to know how many are going to show up for a tournament, especially in the GR market right now. At least they did have a 'on call' list and made the effort to cover the demand that night.

4) Although your other ideas are good, until you steer the ship you (and you already know this) aren't really going to dictate to an operator how they run their store.

5) You will never get 'her' to change unless you can somehow make it 'her' idea along the way.

Cliff .. You are a good man with limited time to try and enjoy poker. Hopefully you can keep the faith ... we need all the players we can get!! GL

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

I wasn't really posting this for the benefit of the operators. I want all of of us (players) in West Michigan to know what's going on and give them the information needed to choose a room. I have ripped my room in Muskegon quite a bit, and it didn't seem right to give TJs a pass on that fiasco.

Every room has it's strength and weaknesses and I will be probably be doing room reviews stating what I liked and didn't like in the near future. Now that Muskegon County has two tournament rooms along with the five in Kent County, those of us in the Grand Rapids/Holland/Muskegon triangle have some options from which to choose.

Another room update:



New Years Eve Tournament Party, Thursday, 12/31/15. Doors open at 4pm for cash games. $50 freezeout (no antes) at 7pm. Hourly Door Prizes, Snacks, Party Favors, free pizza bar at 10pm and a Midnight Champagne Toast for everyone.

The rest of the weekend (Fri - Sun) open at 4pm with a $50 freezeout at 7pm on Friday and Saturday and a Build-A-Stack tournament Sunday at 5pm.

Cash games are also available.

Players can call for any last minute information.

I'm not going anywhere. I have played at TJs many times and I will again. I'm hoping that the mess at Shamrock was a situation that won't be repeated in the future. Best case, the operator has done what the army calls an After Action Report. You get input from your team (and in this case, perhaps players), figure out what went wrong, and fix it.

We always have to keep our options open. There are only two rooms in Muskegon County and one of them didn't last a month when it previously opened. Also, I might choose a particular room at a particular time because of distance, buy-in, prize pool, softness of the field or any number of other reasons. We are always best off with lots of competition and lots of options.

Kind of a weird couple of weeks there with the holidays. Went a few days not knowing what day of the week it was.

Had a really good short session at FireKeepers when my wife was wondering the floor with her grandmother. Their traffic seems to be holding steady when I look at Bravo.

Cash games were good at both Rounders (Woodys) and Westgate. A few new faces popping in at both places and the games were running fairly deep in most seats. The Thursday 2/5 didn't run on NYE, but that was probably expected.

One guy sat down at 3:15 and by 4:30 he had $1700 in front of him!! Nice hourly rate there ... GL

TJs is now down to two rooms. Despite what I bolded above, that doesn't upset me. King's Room is getting established, and TJs is down a room. That's the market working things out, balancing supply and demand.

A profit-maximizing operator might constantly be tweaking a multi-room operation. TJs has moved tournaments from one room to another, had the same tournament going on at two rooms at the same time, and made all kinds of other changes. With that much change, some things will work out and others won't.

King's Room is new and attracting a lot of attention. They could get still more players in the new future, or some players might leave the shiny new object and go to a different room or sample all of the rooms.

People choose rooms for a lot of reasons, from prize pools to soft fields to game variety to hot dealers. What we really need is for the Michigan Gaming Control Board to stop micromanaging the system and let the free market work it out.

Which room did they abandon? Thank you.

My assumption is that they left Shamrock. Really doubt that they would leave Eastbrook and modify Shamrock's days of operation. They will still strive to offer 7 days a week somehow, somewhere in Kent County.

If I were them I would go to Shamrock if they allowed the best hours of operation. Closing at Midnight on Thursday and Sunday at Lincoln can't be good for business. It certainly keeps me away on those nights since I don't generally start playing until after 8:00. GL

Yes, it was Shamrock.

This was posted on Facebook:

TJ's: all at 6:00PM except sunday as listed

Eastbrook

Monday $25 with $15 rebuys 10,000 chips
Tuesday $35 with $10 Add-On 20,000 chips
Wednesday True Build-a-Stack. $20 or $30 or $40 or $50 with $10 add-on at break


Lincoln

Thursday $40 Freeze Out 15,000 chips
Friday $20 Add-To-Stack ($10=4,000 chips. Can buy up to $30 at a whack) Start with 8,000 chips
Saturday $50 Freeze Out 25,000 chips
Sunday at 3pm $30 Freeze Out 10,000 chips
Sunday at 7pm $40 Freeze Out 20,000 chips


Kings all at 7PM except Sunday

Thursday $35 Freeze out 20,000 Chips
Friday $50 Freeze out 27,000 Chips
Saturday $50 Freeze out 27,000 Chips
Sunday 5PM True Build-a-Stack. $20 or $30 or $40 or $50

TJ's Sunday Night ... The structure must be something special if you are starting with 20K in chips at 7PM and 'must' be done by 11:30. You could sit on your hands for 2 hours and then just play shove/fold poker, yes? I would switch the tournaments if I were them. Aggression in the 20K would increase right around registration for the 10K. Folks can 'get their money back' from a bigger BI tourny in the 10K 'turbo'. I think it would help the cash tables too.

Are they still closing at 12:00 on Thursdays and Sundays? GL

Talk about a BAD Beat ... Milwaukee ...

Guy Flops a straight flush with 23 (456)

Guy Turns quad 4s

River is 7 ... ouchy mamma ... GL

Tournament list for Muskegon County, which is now down to one room. Tournaments start at 6 P.M. except for the Sunday tournament, which starts at 3 P.M.

Northway Lanes
1751 Evanston Ave.
Muskegon, MI 49442
Poker room phone: (231) 955-8069


Thursday
Build-A-Stack Tournament, $20 buy-in for 20,000 chips plus up to three $10 add-ons for 10,000 chips each. One more add-on available at first break.

Friday
$50 freezeout, 25,000 starting chips.

Saturday
Triple Cnance tournament.
$30 buy-in for 10,000 chips, including a 5K chip which may be played or held back. At first break $10 add-on for another brown 5K chip, which may be played or held back. (Click on the link below for further explanation.)

Sunday
Build-A-stack tournament, same as Thursday

.http://www.pokertelegraph.com/blog/2...nce-explained/

Holy cow, that nullifies the BBJ, right?

I'd quit poker on the spot. That's like running a winning lotto ticket through the wash.

Yup ... 'negative' $243K one-outer.

Milwaukee pays a bit differently with 'only' 30/20 loser/winner shares and 30% to table (huge!!) and 20% to the rest of the room. It is said that they will be starting to pay a mini-BBJ once this one hits.

Don't worry, Limit Poker is rampant there so the Quad 4s probably only lost $120!! GL

I recently read an online column about the state of Wisconsin coming out with students guidelines that said, among other things, that booing and derisive chants should not be allowed.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/...3D-1496830538#

In the comments I said something about free speech and studying constitutional law and political science in college, and someone came back with "did you get your JD from that particular community college?"

In my response I posted the following, including the bolded section about the MGCB shutting down the free speech rights of the room operators. This was a Fox News article by the way, and I am trying to get the MGCB actions in front of as many people as I can, not as a poker or gambling issue but as a freedom of speech issue:


Wow. Are you really such an elitist that you think someone has to be highly educated to understand or exercise their right to free speech?

I understood the concept at a very young age. My father insisted that I read "1984." That was the only thing that he ever insisted that I read and I resented it--until I read the book.

Yes, that was only a book, but the issue is as prominent as ever. In China Christian pastors are jailed, well, just because they are Christian pastors. But let's look a little closer to home.

In Canada, saying from the pulpit that homosexuality is a sin is illegal because it is considered "hate speech."

Not close enough to home? How about this? In Michigan there are charity poker rooms licensed by the state. A lot of people don't like them, especially the casinos. So, the Michigan Gaming Control Board put the squeeze on the charity rooms. Remember, these are legal businesses licensed by the state.

Recently room operators were told that they are not allowed to advertise. If the room has a web site, that site can not say anything about the games or tournaments, and it can not include the room's phone number or physical address.

THAT is what happens when the right to free speech is infringed. If you don't like what someone is saying or doing you can shut them down.

If that can happen to a legal and licensed poker room who's next?. A sex shop? The Christian bookstore? A Muslim welcome center?

Either we have free speech or we don't.

Well ... 2 things remained constant over the weekend ...

1) "Internet Jake" ran deep in a HPT (12th? at AmeriStar-East)
2) HPT 'Live' updates are the worst in the industry

I didn't pay a lot of attention to this tournament until Sunday but I think Jake was pretty high on the list of Day 1 leaders and was also 'top 5' when they were under 40. After that a tournament can go either way ... I think the cash was for $14K in a $1650 BI event.

It's almost impossible to tell what's going on since HPT updates are the worst. And I think they purposely stop posting once the complaining starts as well. MSPT blows them away as far as updates go. You'd think that will 'all' that TV staff around that they could do something better on a day they aren't working the TV end of things!!

Another player I follow is Craig Casino (Mr. HPT). I've never played with him, but I did watch him on the webcast from Soaring Eagle last year. He probably has one of the tightest images around, yet seems to always be there at the end. He was posting about his AA getting cracked twice in a row and being down to under 50K, then all of a sudden he has 1M plus and now he made 'another' final table. Watch today at 2:20 PM (or 3:20 PM). Perhaps playing tight is what gets you to the end? From what I saw he just bets big when he thinks he's in the lead (OMCish) and he either takes it down or people try to chase. No wonder he can talk about AA getting cracked ... Poker players love to try and chase down 'the nits' .. right? GL

Woody's will not have a day game this week.

Woody's WILL have a night game this week. GL

Pretty good 2/5 at Rounders (Woodys) last night. Starting table stayed in there for quite awhile.

Don't forget that the 5th Sunday $400 is at Firekeepers on Sunday. Pretty sure it's a noon start. GL

HUGE turnout for the $400 at Firekeepers!! 180 runners (some were re-entries) creating a very nice prize pool which offered over $17K for the winner.

I, of course, continued my tournament lack of success with 'bad' cards. I think I made it to level 6 with only 5 showdowns ... 4 of those were from all-ins. I had a lot of potential PF and Flop, but the Turns/Rivers were just nasty. Made some very good folds and some 'I don't knows' in there.

For those of you who know the Green Hornet he finished 5th. The final 4 chopped it up after that ... each taking down a little over $10K.

Then a guy (Seat 5) playing cash refused to pay a River bet ($35) and tried to cash out once the floor ruled he must pay. The guy contends he said "I don't call' when, of course, the only word the dealer and opponent (Seat 3) heard was 'call'. Not sure the legality of all that, but they pressured the guy into eventually paying it off.

THEN the BBJ hit at the same table about 30 minutes later!! $34K and the 'winner' told the dealer "Don't you kid with me" as he was completely unaware as to why the game stopped when his AA got cracked on the AQ8QJ board to QQ.

They did get an OK 2/5 going, but most of the players went over to 1/3. Neither game had much staying power to them. I scored super big in 2 pots (KK v QQ and bigger hidden straight) to make the day worth my while. GL

I used to be active in the Detroit thread and still check it out from time to time. Chopping seems to be a big issue and a lot of the Detroit posters don't like it at all. Some of them even have no-chopping T-shirts.

I cashed a tournament Sunday night where there was a lot of talk about chopping with six players left and four cashing spots. I watched the faces of some of the players, and in some cases it seemed to be an issue of marginal utility.

What I mean by that is, if a couple of the players really needed some money, for them locking in a $250 cash was much more important than taking the risk to play for first place and $600.

In that situation the previous three times I took the chop because I was one of the small stacks and I thought it made sense. Last night we had six stacks that were close to equal.

On top of that, everyone except me wanted to play the bubble. A $20 bubble is a pretty good piece of change when the buy-in is only $50. I went along with everything.

Here's my dilemma:

I have a great image as a tight player and a nice guy. I am indeed by nature conservative. I'm 60, white, and wear dress clothes. I don't curse, tilt, or drink alcohol. I never insult another player. Everything about me screams "tight player" while I've been working on opening up my game and playing more hands.

If I become the only one that doesn't want to pay a bubble or chop a final table, that changes my image a lot. I can imagine the other players thinking: "He's not a nice guy any more, he won't go along with chops or pay the bubble. All he cares about is winning."

Everyone will remember me and watch me more closely, and that's not a good thing. I will be seen either as either a jerk, which might put a target on my back, or a shark who only cares about winning, which will cause opponents to watch me more closely. Neither of those is a good outcome.

Comments?

And that is the charity dilemma ... Lots of regs ... Your family away from family (and they want all your money, just like regular family!!).

I look at chops just like running it twice. Some people feel that you need to have one set rule. And of course it needs to be whatever their rule is or there will be an issue. There's nothing wrong with simply telling them what's on your mind for 'that' day. If it's still early and you'd like to run it out, then tell them that 'for today' you'd like to play it out.

My first tournament at Westgate I ended up at Final Table and on a break (4 left) they started to talk to me about a chop and I had no clue what they were talking about. I told them I was there to play it out and get the experience. First hand back from break they chip dumped to the leader and I ended up with 2nd place money while they chopped up the other 3 places .. fine with me!!

Not paying the bubble or refusing chops has nothing to do with being a tight player. Not sure why you are worried about your personal image other than you do spend a lot of time with these people .. maybe more than some of your family. If anything, people will be stupid and make even more marginal plays against you which in the long run will gain you more chips.

You chop when it's good for you and you don't chop when it's not. And if they wont except your explanation, then play on. Take advantage of spots when people are just hanging on hoping to chop.

As far as the bubble, I think the bubble should get their BI back and not much more. There is always a bubble .. even when you pay the bubble you create another bubble.

I 100% agree with this.

I was "worried about my image" for the same reason that a lot of women who are pros don't want anyone at the table to know that poker is their job.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...iving-1193451/

When you stand out from the crowd, just as I would if I was the only player that didn't want to take a chop, opponents are more likely to remember you and watch your play more closely.

Johnathan Little talks about this regarding what other players think of him. He says that he is in kind of a wieird spot. He's a well-known and successful player, but not famous like a Negreanu or Hellmuth, so he is often unsure how many players at the table know who he is.

This idea can have merit but at these low stakes charity games the vast majority of players play 1st level poker only. They play their cards. They do not at all try to read hands other than they will usually recognize if their hand is the nuts or not.