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10-15-2021 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyBS
Good news. Hopefully this brings back poker with casinos at full capacity.

"The easing of pandemic measures will include ending capacity limits in all locations where proof-of-vaccination requirements are in place..."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ge-3-1.6209162
Casinos and any serious business with good security are among the few places that I trust to enforce the vaccination status of customers.

The printed slip from the government can easily be forged as it has no security features and the few times I have used the form the clerks enforcing the rules have had varying degrees of thoroughness in applying it.

The system is there to be abused and a fine isn't a serious deterrent.
Toronto Quote
10-15-2021 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggle
Second one. This one really is best viewed directly, it's really long and has a lot of graphs and charts illustrating various things. I emailed the reporter my thoughts on poker as relates to the OLG & GCG, and she took them under advisement.

The inside story of how the OLG lost control of Ontario’s online gambling market

By Christine DobbyBusiness Reporter
Thu., Sept. 30, 2021timer13 min. read

It’s no surprise that over the past two decades, online gambling has grown into a massive global market. With billions in revenue going to websites run by overseas operators, it was only a matter of time before Canada’s biggest province set its sights on making a killing for itself — by recouping a good chunk of that money in taxes.

At the moment, of the close to $1 billion that the provincial government says Ontarians spend gambling online every year, about 70 per cent goes to sites that are unregulated here, big-name players like Bet365, PokerStars and Betway.

In other words, it’s the Wild West. Offshore betting in Ontario is a grey area and since it’s unregulated, the province can do little to keep minors away from betting, help gamblers with addiction issues and combat money laundering.

Now, Ontario is poised to follow the lead of European countries such as Denmark and the United Kingdom and U.S. states like New Jersey. As of December, the plan is for it to become the first province in Canada to allow private companies — including websites licensed outside Canada — to legally offer online gambling to its residents.

“There’s a paradigm shift from criminalizing online gambling to decriminalizing online gambling, primarily because of the player protection aspect,” said Yaniv Spielberg, co-founder and chief strategy officer at Bragg Gaming Group, a Toronto-based gaming technology provider.

Shares of Canadian stocks tied to betting have been on the rise in the past year, which has seen multibillion-dollar takeover deals of domestic firms Great Canadian Gaming Corp. and Score Media by U.S. heavyweights.

Traditional sports media players such as Sportsnet owner Rogers Communications are also circling the sector, and Torstar Corp., which owns the Toronto Star, has said it plans to launch an online casino and will include sports betting in its new venture.

So who, exactly, will manage this massive and soon-to-be-perfectly-legal field?

The natural candidate would be the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. (OLG), the crown corporation that has long managed gambling in the province — including the lottery, a couple dozen casinos and thousands of slot machines — and launched its own internet betting platform in 2015. (Gambling is technically illegal in Canada but under federal law, provinces can “conduct and manage” betting.)

That’s why it was surprising when it was announced last year that, in fact, the OLG would not be in charge.

Nor will it control Ontario’s online market for betting on single sporting events, set to launch at the same time. (Single-sport betting only recently became possible because of a change in federal law; sports betting was previously limited to wagering on multiple events at once, known as parlay bets.)

Instead, when the igaming market launches in December, a new division within the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario (AGCO) will be calling the shots. The OLG will be just another competitor vying for dominance — competing head-to-head with a range of new players, including sophisticated international gambling giants.

“The OLG certainly has a diminished role in this new regime — you no longer have to go to them,” said Cameron MacDonald, a partner and co-chair of the sports and gaming law group at national law firm BLG.

Some say, this could even be the beginning of the end for the provincial gambling corporation.

To get a picture of why the OLG was passed over to manage igaming, the Star spoke with more than a dozen sources close to the gambling sector, the government and the OLG. Most spoke on the condition of anonymity, concerned about future job prospects and relationships with regulators and government.

From these conversations, the Star has learned that the OLG was largely cut out of control of the new market early in the province’s consultations on igaming, which began in 2019.

The reasons for this can be traced back to a privatization plan that didn’t go exactly as planned, falling short of big promises of more tax dollars for the province, and previously unreported clashes between the OLG and Ontario’s gambling regulator and private casino operators.

The OLG did not agree to an interview for this story, but spokesman Tony Bitonti provided a detailed email response to the Star. He said the OLG has a new strategic plan that aims to “re-establish financial performance and accelerate growth across its business lines even as the market in Ontario is being opened to external competition and global innovation.”

“Under our plan, OLG is the driving force behind a vibrant and sustainable gaming marketplace which generates returns for Ontario, creates jobs and develops local economies.”

While the OLG will not manage the new online market, it has not given up on trying to influence the future of igaming and, sources say, is trying to hold on to what power it does have over traditional gambling in the province.

“The minute the online gaming regime launches and is successful, no one needs the OLG any longer,” said one source. “So, it’s existential for them.”


***

The OLG has been around in some form for almost 50 years, but for the last decade, it’s been faced with the strange task of presiding over its own dismantling.

Following a directive from the province to drum up new revenue from gambling, the OLG, under then-board chair Paul Godfrey (chair of Postmedia) and CEO Rod Phillips (now the provincial minister of long-term care), unveiled a “modernization” plan in 2012.

The idea was to transition to a slimmed-down operation, with fewer employees and operational expenses. It would transfer more responsibility for day-to-day operations to the private sector and give them the chance to build new casinos and invest in existing properties to make them more profitable, all while paying sizable fees to the OLG.

But modernization didn’t go as promised. And little did anyone know at the time, but it would set in motion a series of events that led to the OLG losing power over the online market.

There were numerous other stumbles, and the centrepiece of modernization — privatizing casinos — took years longer than the OLG originally forecast.

By 2016, the auditor general said the OLG had cut its initial projections of how much more profit modernization would bring into the province in six years by more than 65 per cent.

The OLG eventually reached eight agreements with a total of four private casino companies — Great Canadian (now owned by Apollo), Gateway Casinos, Hard Rock, and Mohegan Gaming and Entertainment — assigning them long-term rights tied to certain geographical areas. (Caesars Entertainment continues to operate the casino in Windsor under an earlier agreement.)

But the contracts included detailed requirements on business operations and tensions over these unwieldy agreements would eventually factor into the sidelining of the OLG on igaming.

A woman breezes past the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Association prize headquarters on Dundas St. W. on Sept. 29, 2021. The provincial government recently said Ontarians spend close to $1 billion gambling online every year, and about 70 per cent of that is on sites that are unregulated here.

It seemed to many like the opposite of private-sector efficiency to generate more tax revenue. And it duplicated the efforts of the province’s actual gaming regulator, the AGCO.

Around the time of modernization, the AGCO introduced a more hands-off approach to regulation. Instead of spelling out exactly how to run things, the AGCO focused on outcomes it wanted to achieve, such as keeping minors off casino floors, and largely left it up to operators to accomplish those ends.

But where the AGCO backed off, the OLG stepped in. For example, the AGCO eliminated a requirement that operators seek approval to move gaming equipment, such as a slot machine, but the OLG reintroduced that requirement.

Stephen Rigby, former national security adviser to then-prime minister Stephen Harper, was CEO for most of the OLG’s casino privatization process. Sources said under his tenure the organization became increasingly focused on compliance, and relations with its casino partners grew adversarial.

And outright hostility soon developed between the OLG and AGCO, a situation multiple sources described as unprecedented and surprising.

The Star has learned that the conflict between the OLG and AGCO grew so bad that by 2019, the provincial government asked Tom Marinelli, a former long-time OLG executive who acted as interim CEO on two occasions, to investigate.

“There are hundreds of pages of controls, mandatory operating procedures and protocols that have been layered on top of the contracts that prescribe daily operations,” the Canadian Gaming Association, a lobby group for the gambling industry, wrote in a confidential letter to Marinelli in 2019.

“This has created unnecessary conflict and oversight burden between OLG, the AGCO and casino operators.”

The CGA told Marinelli that the OLG’s approach was not in line with the original intent of the modernization plan, had impeded revenue growth and had “discouraged the creation of new, incremental jobs and investment in Ontario.”

Bitonti said the contracts are comprehensive because they cover multi-year terms and are meant to protect the public interest, adding, “OLG’s casino operators are sophisticated commercial partners … which consented to the terms of the contracts.”

Against the backdrop of this swirling conflict, the province announced in the spring of 2019 that it planned to legalize online betting.

After early meetings to gather industry feedback, the writing was soon on the wall for the OLG and its role in the new market.

During one pivotal meeting in late June 2019, a range of gaming industry stakeholders gathered in a conference room in the Frost building, which houses the Ministry of Finance, across the street from Queen’s Park and the legislative buildings in downtown Toronto.

Bureaucrats from both the departments of finance and the attorney general were in attendance and just before the meeting began, Attorney General Doug Downey himself arrived.

David Pridmore, a senior vice-president at the OLG, was also on hand, and private casino operators, offshore online gaming companies and gambling technology providers were also represented either in the room or on the conference call line.

One of the first questions raised was about who should conduct and manage the new market. It seemed innocuous enough, a point of almost arcane procedure necessary to ensure compliance with the federal law.

But according to multiple sources involved in the meeting, the answers were polite — it was awkward with Pridmore in the room, one source said — but consistent: not the OLG.

For one, with its own online betting platform, the OLG would be a competitor in the new market, and no one wanted to hand over customer or business information to a rival.

But sources said stakeholders at the meeting were also deeply concerned about the OLG’s reputation, based in part on past experiences of the casino operators, as a micromanager that acted as a second regulator in the space and demonstrated little trust toward its partners.

“Nobody was gratuitous,” said one source, “But they said, ‘We’re not working with these guys.’ ”

***

All just a wager
Wild projections abound on the size of the market for online sports betting in Ontario and Canada, but industry experts say some should be taken with a grain of salt.
$10 billion

The amount the Canadian Gaming Association estimates Canadians spend each year on illegal bookmaking operations, but the criminal element makes this amount difficult to verify.

$323 million

The amount H2 Gambling Capital estimates Canadians spent on unregulated sports betting websites in 2019, after accounting for prizes and winnings paid out.

$19 million

Total spending by Canadians (after prize money) on regulated sports betting websites in 2019.

$340 million to
$708 million

The potential size of Ontario’s new regulated online sports betting market within two years of legalization, according to a PwC report on the Canadian market. The range between the lower and higher amounts depends on factors such as the tax rate imposed (a lower tax rate is expected to attract more private operators to the licensed regime), and the Star performed a rough calculation of Ontario’s portion based on its percentage of the Canadian population.

After the Frost building meeting, the AGCO took the lead on further consultations with the industry, and the decision was formalized in the provincial budget last November: the government would create a new subsidiary of the AGCO to conduct and manage the igaming market.

The new subsidiary, iGaming Ontario, was officially established in July and will manage commercial agreements with online gambling operators. So far, it is a small agency with a separate board from the AGCO itself, which will continue to regulate the industry and license private operators.

The provincial government did not comment specifically on the decision to give the AGCO responsibility for the new market.

The AGCO told the Star it works collaboratively “wherever possible” with the OLG. Spokesperson Raymond Kahnert said the AGCO has tried to reduce regulatory burdens in the industry, adding, “We are committed to working with the OLG to identify and eliminate areas of overlap, duplication and burden in the casino sector.”

Bitonti also said the OLG is “collaborating well” and has a “renewed sense of partnership” with the AGCO.

He said privatization has brought “world-class casino brands” to the province and private operators have invested about $1.5 billion in additional capital and created 500 new jobs (based on pre-pandemic numbers). “Without private sector involvement, these investments wouldn’t have been possible.”

Asked about the OLG, representatives for Ontario’s private casino operators largely said in brief statements that they have positive relationships with the organization (Hard Rock did not comment and Mohegan said it meets regularly with the OLG.)

Unless it’s handing out a novelty cheque to a lottery winner, the OLG tries to stay out of the news.

When it does make the papers, the OLG is often tied to some sort of controversy, such as fraud allegations over lottery insiders claiming winning tickets or a scandal over internal spending.

But before the impact of the pandemic, the OLG funnelled close to $2.5 billion in gambling profits to the treasury department every year. That dividend is worth roughly the same to the province as the gas tax or alcohol sales from the LCBO, and industry insiders say this has long helped protect the OLG politically.

Yet, the OLG is likely to face renewed scrutiny later this year and could struggle to justify its size — and public gaffes — as the online market takes off.

Earlier this year, OLG board chair Peter Deeb quietly left his post and the Toronto Sun reported his departure was tied to a police investigation in which he was later cleared. (The Ontario Provincial Police would not comment on Deeb but a spokesperson said it was involved in an investigation “related to Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp.” but “no criminal offence was identified” and no charges were laid). Bitonti said Deeb told the OLG he was stepping down for “personal reasons.” The government has yet to appoint a permanent replacement for Deeb.

Rigby, who was CEO for five years, had already said he planned to step down last year when the OLG came under fire for paying executive bonuses during the pandemic after the government extended the organization a line of credit to weather COVID-19 closures.

Earlier in his tenure, Rigby also faced reports of expensive office renovations that spurred Premier Doug Ford to promise an audit of the OLG’s expenses.

Two years later, the audit has yet to be published. Ministry of Finance spokesperson Emily Hogeveen said it will be “complete in the next few weeks and subsequently published.”

Sources close to the industry expect the audit to address whether expenses at the OLG—which has about 1,350 full and part-time employees and two head offices in Sault Ste. Marie and Toronto—are outsized considering it has outsourced responsibility for casinos in the province.

A review of the OLG’s annual revenue, expenses and net income paid to the province since 2012 shows that by 2018-19 (the last full year not affected by COVID-19), its profit margin — net income as a percentage of overall revenue — had remained flat at about 27 per cent.

The organization’s revenues increased over that time to $8.4 billion, up from $6.7 billion in 2011-12. But expenses — which include prize money and fees paid to the casino operators as well as the OLG’s own overhead spending on items such as payroll, marketing and IT — also ticked steadily up, growing to $6.2 billion by 2018-19, up from $5.1 billion pre-modernization.

Bitonti said casino revenue has gone up by about $600 million annually since the modernization process began and that the OLG’s profit “solely from gaming revenue” has grown by $450 million.

When the audit is eventually published, the OLG is expected to face calls to justify the ongoing bureaucracy and legacy costs of the organization. And that will come as the province heads toward launch day on a significant new market.

The Ministry of Finance is in the midst of finalizing the commercial terms of this new market, including the tax rate online operators will have to pay. Industry lobbyists have proposed rates in the range of 15 to 20 per cent (and even lower than that for sports betting, which operates on very thin profit margins).

However, the Star has learned that the OLG has been advocating for a tax rate of more than 30 per cent, a rate sources say would be a disincentive to online players entering the regulated regime, as many of them are already operating in the province and paying zero tax.

“The OLG responds to requests for information from the (government) on a range of gaming/lottery topics on a regular basis,” Bitonti said. He did not comment on the rate the OLG recommended.

When the federal government legalized betting on single sports events in late August, the OLG was the only operator in the province approved to take wagers and took advantage of its head start by heavily promoting its Proline+ product. Meanwhile, its casino partners still face uncertainty over whether and how they can run sportsbooks of their own.

Bitonti said the OLG is in “active dialogue” with them over sports betting at casinos and how private players could use existing customer data to expand into the igaming space.

“The OLG was a monopoly for a very long time and offered a subpar product,” said Bragg Gaming’s Spielberg.

“Ultimately the OLG as we know it today will die if they don’t step up their game against all these private operators that are coming in with years of experience in very major jurisdictions around the world.”
Doesn't 1.7 percent sound too low for any posters here? I know the various bands don't have to do anything for the money but the money going to bands could easily be higher than this.

How many bands in the far north don't have proper running water and housing stock.

I suspect if the NDP got into power the revenue split would be more equitable.
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10-15-2021 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty rosen
Doesn't 1.7 percent sound too low for any posters here? I know the various bands don't have to do anything for the money but the money going to bands could easily be higher than this.

How many bands in the far north don't have proper running water and housing stock.

I suspect if the NDP got into power the revenue split would be more equitable.
Nobody wants or needs casinos on native lands. It's a giveaway from the government that they're there in the first place. I think 1.7% is fine, as the alternative is zero lol.

Also, as this is gov't, there's a TON of people with their hands in the cookie jar. There's the natives and OLG, there's the operator, there's the food service contractor, there's the contribution to the daycare fund of the local union, etc, etc. It all adds up.
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10-16-2021 , 09:34 PM
Hello guys. What are my options for NLH cashgames in and around the city atm? I'm a former online poker player now wanting to try live poker for the first time. Happy to play anywhere from 1-2 to 5-10.
Toronto Quote
10-17-2021 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callcallSNAP
Hello guys. What are my options for NLH cashgames in and around the city atm? I'm a former online poker player now wanting to try live poker for the first time. Happy to play anywhere from 1-2 to 5-10.
Nothing legal at the moment, you will need somebody to vouch for you to play at an underground game.
Toronto Quote
10-18-2021 , 11:27 PM
Toronto Star's latest article dumping on the OLG. Hopefully more to come.
https://www.thestar.com/business/202...dit-finds.html

OLG audit finds misuse of corporate credit cards, 46 per cent raises, and no comprehensive business case for modernization plans

By Christine DobbyBusiness Reporter
Sun., Oct. 17, 2021timer4 min. read
Furniture. Travel. Sky-high executive pay.

A long-awaited government audit found multiple red flags in the executive suite of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp., from misuse of corporate credit cards to compensation practices out of line with what other public servants make.

The report also found the OLG’s plan to funnel more money to provincial coffers by privatizing casinos was plagued by delays, overly optimistic profit forecasts and the lack of a “comprehensive business case.”

The audit, which was conducted by an internal division of the government and not the independent auditor general’s office, stops short of drawing scathing conclusions about the OLG’s performance, but it raises serious questions about the value the agency has delivered for taxpayers.

From 2015 to 2018, some OLG executives received raises of between 16 to 46 per cent, far higher than raises of three to 10 per cent at other government-owned corporations, the audit found.

By 2018, then-CEO Stephen Rigby was making $765,000 (he made $797,000 last year before leaving the OLG).

The audit found total executive compensation at the OLG was $11.1 million in 2019, compared to $7.2 million, $6.1 million and $5.2 million, respectively, at Metrolinx, the LCBO and the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board.

In 2019, shortly after the government began the audit, the OLG faced reports in the Toronto Sun of excessive spending on office renovations by Rigby.

The auditors sampled about $260,000 worth of spending on credit cards across the board and found 29 per cent of that was on items such as furniture and travel and did not comply with the OLG’s corporate credit card policy — the purchases should have been made through some other means. The audit did not draw any conclusions about Rigby personally.

OLG spokesperson Tony Bitonti told the Star in an email the credit card transactions noted in the audit “were found to be legitimate work-related expenses,” and that the corporation has implemented recommendations by the auditors to tighten controls in that area.

Bitonti also said current salary ranges were approved by the OLG’s board and the government in 2018 and that “a third-party review has confirmed these salary ranges fall within market rates for the broader public sector.”

He added that executive base salaries have been frozen since 2018 and that the agency is already working on recommendations from the audit.

“OLG welcomes independent reviews of its business which contribute to improved operations and enhanced accountability,” Bitonti said.

The publication of the audit comes more than two years after the government began its wide-ranging probe of the OLG, a crown corporation that runs the lottery and oversees casinos.

The report noted that while the OLG saw an 82 per cent reduction in staff as it privatized casinos between 2016 and 2019, the number of executives increased by 36 per cent.

Last year, as COVID-19 shutdowns devastated the casino business and thousands of private-sector gambling employees were laid off, the OLG came under fire for continuing to pay executive bonuses. However, the audit did not cover the time period after 2019.

The probe also raised concerns about the OLG’s 2012 “modernization” plan to reach agreements with private operators to run existing casinos and build new ones.

It concluded the process was marked by delays and that OLG management “tended to lean on the side of optimism such as best-case scenario or ideal conditions.”

The OLG also failed to develop a “comprehensive business case” for modernization after the auditor general said one was required in a 2014 report.

The OLG initially promised modernization would deliver an additional $1.3 billion in profit to the province every year by 2017-18, but later revised that to $889 million starting in 2021-22. Before the pandemic, it delivered about $2.5 billion per year to the province in profit.

Paul Burns, president and CEO of the Canadian Gaming Association, said the audit shows the modernization process was too “complex and rigid.” It made it hard for private operators to bid on the contracts and hurt the business case for those that did win casino rights, he said, leading to less revenue for the province.

“Under new leadership, OLG is implementing a new strategic plan that will deliver on additional growth and continuous improvement,” he said. Duncan Hannay, a former banking executive, took over as CEO of the OLG last October.

“Our government is supportive of OLG’s commitment to improving its operations, enhancing accountability and transparency, and delivering value to the province of Ontario by acting on the audit recommendations,” said Ministry of Finance spokesperson Emily Hogeveen.

The two phases of the audit were completed in June and December of 2020 but just posted online earlier this month.
Toronto Quote
10-19-2021 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callcallSNAP
Hello guys. What are my options for NLH cashgames in and around the city atm? I'm a former online poker player now wanting to try live poker for the first time. Happy to play anywhere from 1-2 to 5-10.
Google Toronto poker clubs for a few options
Toronto Quote
10-22-2021 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus
Google Toronto poker clubs for a few options
I bumped into a poker player and we got brass tacks and talked about if games are raided and what the rake is in an underground club and the rake will shock you as it's about double what Ontario casinos charge. He stated it was 14+2 and he basically stated if the game doesn't have the violence problems plaguing the York region clubs before the task force raids then the games are ignored.

I know many players on here complained about 7+1 being not worth playing but 14+2 can't be beatable unless you total droolers on the tables. Of course food and alcohol and cigarettes are free as they are paid for x times over.
Toronto Quote
10-22-2021 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty rosen
I bumped into a poker player and we got brass tacks and talked about if games are raided and what the rake is in an underground club and the rake will shock you as it's about double what Ontario casinos charge. He stated it was 14+2 and he basically stated if the game doesn't have the violence problems plaguing the York region clubs before the task force raids then the games are ignored.

I know many players on here complained about 7+1 being not worth playing but 14+2 can't be beatable unless you total droolers on the tables. Of course food and alcohol and cigarettes are free as they are paid for x times over.
Depends where you go, PokerAces, the longest running regular underground game (AFAIK) has a flat cap of 5 dollars per pot. I know a few UG games that are 10% up to 10 which is not great but is not as bad as 14+2.
Toronto Quote
10-23-2021 , 08:44 AM
Casinos are back to full capacity and no distancing requirements on Monday. I would imagine we should start seeing some rooms start to open soon.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1...-the-long-term
Toronto Quote
10-23-2021 , 10:04 AM
Even if it does come back soon.. and thats a big if, given pokers overall treatment in Ontario..: what are these rooms going to look like?

How many dealers have wuit and where will they find those dealers? Wait times could be terrible. Port Perry was already horrible before they closed down poker.
Toronto Quote
10-23-2021 , 03:37 PM
Won’t hold my breath but welcome the option of legal live poker again. Been awhile since I’ve been treated like an a-hole in NF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Toronto Quote
10-23-2021 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewoldpro
Even if it does come back soon.. and thats a big if, given pokers overall treatment in Ontario..: what are these rooms going to look like?

How many dealers have wuit and where will they find those dealers? Wait times could be terrible. Port Perry was already horrible before they closed down poker.
Port Perry is a shithole cause it's Great Canadian and they don't care about poker. Plus it's Port Perry, who wants that commute on a daily basis?

Niagara should be able to get enough dealers.
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10-23-2021 , 07:01 PM
There's a 0% chance blue heron will have poker by the end of the year (if ever). Poker in existing casinos in Ontario is a pipe dream at this point in time.
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10-27-2021 , 12:30 PM
Any news?
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10-28-2021 , 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
Any news?
I tried calling a few places but the phone system is all automated and they don't let you actually talk to anyone. The only person I was able to talk to was the Niagara hotel booking agent and they didn't know anything.

I'm giving it another week or so then I'm going to try emailing my MPP. With all the bad press around OLG recently maybe it's on their radar (probably not).
Toronto Quote
11-01-2021 , 12:05 PM
So the ScotiaBank Arena can have a stadium of 20,000 screaming fans but casinos here can't open a small poker room?

Give me a f*cking break.

I think live poker may be as good as dead in Ontario. I see so many casinos adapt well to the change in circumstances, like put dividers up, have people wear masks in addition, and this is in states and cities with almost half the amount of fully vaccinated people that we have here.

To me this screams that Poker rooms will be cut out completely or the rooms may be a lot smaller to make way for slot machines. I can't imagine casinos were super profitable from poker anyways but they kept them because Poker is a staple game and lots of people love it. But at the end of the day, these casinos are here to make money, and the pandemic wasn't very helpful to that cause.

If there haven't been plans by any casino here to open live poker by now, I doubt we will see it for a long time, if ever.

Last edited by daxile; 11-01-2021 at 12:10 PM.
Toronto Quote
11-01-2021 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxile
I think live poker may be as good as dead in Ontario. I see so many casinos adapt well to the change in circumstances, like put dividers up, have people wear masks in addition, and this is in states and cities with almost half the amount of fully vaccinated people that we have here.... If there haven't been plans by any casino here to open live poker by now, I doubt we will see it for a long time, if ever.
Although the Rama website still says "Please note, Texas Hold’Em Poker and Craps will not be available during the first phase of the casino re-opening," someone posted on Reddit earlier today:
Quote:
Dropped by and poker room is open! The first to reopen in Ontario I'm pretty sure. Caveats: No call ins. Therefore, no way to call in ahead to reserve a spot. Only 1-2 running at the moment, with a 2-5 list. It seems it's a 'soft' re-opening of sorts after speaking with the floor manager. They want to see how popular it is and they'll re-evaluate after a few weeks.
Bad beat jackpot is where it was pre-pandemic.
Rake is $15 max for both games. Absolutely brutal especially for the 1-2.
Toronto Quote
11-01-2021 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellinToronto
Although the Rama website still says "Please note, Texas Hold’Em Poker and Craps will not be available during the first phase of the casino re-opening," someone posted on Reddit earlier today:
Quote:
Rake is $15 max for both games.
WTF?!?!?

That's nuts. Not winnable @ 12. Just think about that -- single raise HU pot, guy starts with $100. 7% of his stack goes immediately straight to the house, even if they chop.
Toronto Quote
11-01-2021 , 08:21 PM
That's absolutely insane. I'm hoping GBH and Niagara don't try to get away with something similar.

Are games even consistently running there?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
Toronto Quote
11-01-2021 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojojo16
That's absolutely insane. I'm hoping GBH and Niagara don't try to get away with something similar.

Are games even consistently running there?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
Rama already had one foot in the grave pre Covid due to their excessive rake. Room wasn't even 1/3 capacity what it was a couple years prior. And it's not just the poker room, it's that whole casino. The whole idea of putting casinos on reserves in the middle of nowhere... really a good example of why gov't monopolies are a bad idea.

I don't really care too much what Rama does, that room won't survive long term as long as GBH comes back. GBH has lower rake and is much closer to the GTA.

And the owners of Niagara are reasonable, and that casino is already on life support -- it's being kept alive by poker. So I don't see Niagara going out of control anytime soon. GBH on the other hand... they may get greedy as well. But if they do I also that casino headed for big trouble. No-one's asking for a casino in Port Perry...
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11-02-2021 , 01:07 PM
Agree that $15 rake is insane but still happy to have some legal poker options. Makes the $10 CNE rake seem mild. If GCC gets their stuff in order and has poker at Brantford or Great Blue Heron, that would be great.


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11-02-2021 , 03:22 PM
Itt I learn that poker keeps the lights on in niagara. This site is hilarious what a joke
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11-02-2021 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus
Itt I learn that poker keeps the lights on in niagara. This site is hilarious what a joke
Oh. I guess you think the free video games they had for years outside the room were more profitable.

My bad.

Anyone with a job goes to Fallsview. CN is for the locals, kids with no money, welfare bums, and retired ppl looking for a cheap blackjack game.

And poker players.

Poker was moved to CN cause they had a lease they couldn't get out of, and the gov't optics of closing it were bad. Poker was moved out of Fallsview so they could put more profitable stuff in its place.
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11-03-2021 , 01:01 PM
One roulette table is more profitable than all 24 poker tables there. But do go on. Actually don't
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