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08-01-2021 , 04:14 AM
Because I was feeling inspired tonight, I just sent this off to the finance minister. Let's see what happens...

Dear Mr. Bethlenfalvyco,

I hope you're doing well. Please do not reply to this email with a form letter. Please give me a candid, honest reply. Mr. Ford tries very hard to position himself as being forthright and a man of and for the people, and I'd very much appreciate a conversation in that vein.

As finance minister, you're directly responsible for the OLG and their operations and activities.

Great Canadian Gaming was granted an exclusive GTA casino license by the previous Ontario government, and they have chosen to not offer poker in any of their GTA casinos (Pickering, Ajax, Woodbine).

In the OLG's 2012 modernization white paper, the OLG specifically called out poker as a game needed to ensure continued growth and revenue generation of the OLG's land based assets.
Ontario_Lottery_Gaming_Modernizing_strategic_busin ess_review2012.pdf (olg.ca)

Quote (my bold added for emphasis):
Demographic shifts About 88 percent of OLG land-based gaming revenue is from slot machines, which have limited appeal to players under 45. These players prefer table games like black jack and poker. Demand for slot machine gaming is not expected to grow and will plateau in the coming years.

So I'm somewhat confused. I understand dollars play a role in all business and governmental decisions, but at the same time I understand that poker is profitable -- it's offered on a large scale and standalone basis in two of the highest operating cost jurisdictions in North America -- Quebec and California.

So why would the OLG grant an exclusive license to an operator who is explicitly not performing the necessary conditions for future success and growth as detailed in the OLG's white paper? In fact they're doing quite the opposite, by concentrating mainly on slot machines, further limiting their demographic appeal to the 45+ crowd. In short, they're sacrificing long term growth for short term gain, and in the process hamstringing the future success of the OLG. Further, if a contract was granted to an operator who neglected these conditions, why has the Ontario government not moved forward with tendering another poker specific license, so the OLG would then be able to capture that additional revenue?

Poker, in addition to being a highly in demand game amongst casino patrons, is also a huge driver in terms of job creation. Poker rooms require much more labour than slot machines. Given Great Canadian's showcase casino is in Pickering, and you're the MPP for Pickering, I'd think this issue would be of paramount importance to you.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the above.

Best Regards,


END



If I don't get satisfaction here I'll forward the thread to Doug Ford, see if that does anything. If not I think the next stop is the Toronto Sun, they're the most poker friendly media outlet out there. Anyone know anyone at the Sun & care to give me an intro? Private message me if so, otherwise I'll read up on their columnists and see who I think will give me the most open hearing.

Last edited by Buggle; 08-01-2021 at 04:33 AM.
Toronto Quote
08-01-2021 , 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggle
Poker rooms require much more labour than slot machines.
You've answered your own questions. Complicated by the fact that Woodbine, for example, has the highest slot win per day of any casino I have ever encountered. I mean anywhere in the world. It is OFF the charts huge. iirc before the privatization its slot win per day was $500-800. that is insane by any industry measurement.

Your timing is also not the best. Spacing out slots and table games due to covid takes the already crystal clear financial reasons for not having poker and it puts it on steroids.
Toronto Quote
08-02-2021 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggle
Truthfully neither of us have access to Great Canadian's books, so we really don't have much insight into whether much of what you've said is true.

What we can say with certainty though, is that we're in this situation because of the Ontario government's shiit handling of the situation. If they insist on poker being part of the license, it will be offered. If they tender a poker only contract, it will be bid upon. Playground is very profitable running poker only, and they do it in Quebec, the highest overheard & most bureaucratic jurisdiction in Canada. Admittedly on a native reserve, but still, I imagine the Quebec gov't get a piece. California has dozens of mainly poker card rooms scattered throughout the state, and they have the highest minimum wage in North America. LA has the Commerce Casino, a pure poker casino that runs literally hundreds of tables when busy. So I do tend to think that poker most likely is profitable, it's really more about GCG not merely wanting to be profitable, it's about them trying to loot and pillage us as quickly and efficiently as they can.

Fwiw, the reviews (aside from some shill reviews from local politicians, real estate people, business interests etc) are scathing. People are not taking the $100 min tables and tightest slots in the world thing well. Hopefully that trend continues are they're forced to re-evaluate their level of greed.

I found this review amusing, a $25 burger and fries lol...that's a $34 burger and fries after tax & tip.


The most ironic thing in this whole situation is that the Ontario gov't, when they were in the tendering process for new Ontario casinos, specifically mentioned poker as a needed game to keep casinos relevant.
https://about.olg.ca/wp-content/uplo...review2012.pdf


Shiit changes I guess when the dollars start flowing.

Stupid OLG. Stupid Great Canadian.
To the person complaining about the pricing and poor service and rude management, all I can say is welcome to Ontario...

This is why government run anything and licensing without any competition breeds Soviet style service.
Toronto Quote
08-05-2021 , 11:20 AM
Hi all! I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but I think it is, if not any kind redirection would be appreciated:

I'm looking for a live poker dealer for a private no-rake game with amateurs. Competitive pay + tips. Downtown toronto condo. 5-6 hours and will end promptly at midnight on a weekend night (unsure which night currently).

If anyone has any leads or wants to forward the gig, I can be reached at prodgametoronto@gmail.com or through DMs here. Thanks all!
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08-16-2021 , 11:50 PM
Does anyone know what type of poker games/limits that mansion in Markham was running before it got shutdown/raided last year?

I tried asking a few people that might know, no one seems to know or didn't wanna say.

https://torontolife.com/city/inside-...casino-fiasco/
Toronto Quote
08-17-2021 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercet
Does anyone know what type of poker games/limits that mansion in Markham was running before it got shutdown/raided last year?

I tried asking a few people that might know, no one seems to know or didn't wanna say.

https://torontolife.com/city/inside-...casino-fiasco/
Interesting article. Thanks for the link.
Toronto Quote
08-18-2021 , 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercet
Does anyone know what type of poker games/limits that mansion in Markham was running before it got shutdown/raided last year?

I tried asking a few people that might know, no one seems to know or didn't wanna say.

https://torontolife.com/city/inside-...casino-fiasco/
i know some people who are a part of that 'scene' (i live in markham) and they said they didn't know anything about it. they would have no reason to not tell me. it's one of a huge number of private games that run privately the operation got large enough / it aroused enough suspicion that authorities jumped on it.

the police apparently (allegedly) stole the guys baller watches. wouldn't surprise me.
Toronto Quote
08-22-2021 , 01:38 AM
Here's quite a bit of info on that mansion bust. I haven't listened to all of it

https://thebigstorypodcast.ca/2021/08/20/3808/
Toronto Quote
08-22-2021 , 05:45 PM
Anyone hearing when (if?) Niagara or Brantford rooms will open?
Toronto Quote
08-27-2021 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick 96
Anyone hearing when (if?) Niagara or Brantford rooms will open?
Unfortunately I don't see any rooms opening until we exit step 3 and are back at full capacity limits. Could be a long wait.
Toronto Quote
09-03-2021 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggle
....and there it is:
Niagara --
https://casinoniagara.com/updates.html

Great Canadian (Brantford & Port Perry)
https://gcgaming.com/wp-content/uplo...ety_June28.pdf

Officially no poker in Ontario till the second incarnation of Jesus.

Why do Ontario casinos suck so much ass?

its all about control and power, grabbing the hair of the population while they butt**** us from behind with a 10 inch.

humans inherently love power and will refuse to give it up. if the government says they are trying to "protect" people it means the exact opposite.

literally like 10 poker rooms with thousands of players playing cash games 500miles around me in the US run with 0 issues, but we cant have that here? its sickening.
Toronto Quote
09-04-2021 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggle
Because I was feeling inspired tonight, I just sent this off to the finance minister. Let's see what happens...

Dear Mr. Bethlenfalvyco,

I hope you're doing well. Please do not reply to this email with a form letter. Please give me a candid, honest reply. Mr. Ford tries very hard to position himself as being forthright and a man of and for the people, and I'd very much appreciate a conversation in that vein.

As finance minister, you're directly responsible for the OLG and their operations and activities.

Great Canadian Gaming was granted an exclusive GTA casino license by the previous Ontario government, and they have chosen to not offer poker in any of their GTA casinos (Pickering, Ajax, Woodbine).

In the OLG's 2012 modernization white paper, the OLG specifically called out poker as a game needed to ensure continued growth and revenue generation of the OLG's land based assets.
Ontario_Lottery_Gaming_Modernizing_strategic_busin ess_review2012.pdf (olg.ca)

Quote (my bold added for emphasis):
Demographic shifts About 88 percent of OLG land-based gaming revenue is from slot machines, which have limited appeal to players under 45. These players prefer table games like black jack and poker. Demand for slot machine gaming is not expected to grow and will plateau in the coming years.

So I'm somewhat confused. I understand dollars play a role in all business and governmental decisions, but at the same time I understand that poker is profitable -- it's offered on a large scale and standalone basis in two of the highest operating cost jurisdictions in North America -- Quebec and California.

So why would the OLG grant an exclusive license to an operator who is explicitly not performing the necessary conditions for future success and growth as detailed in the OLG's white paper? In fact they're doing quite the opposite, by concentrating mainly on slot machines, further limiting their demographic appeal to the 45+ crowd. In short, they're sacrificing long term growth for short term gain, and in the process hamstringing the future success of the OLG. Further, if a contract was granted to an operator who neglected these conditions, why has the Ontario government not moved forward with tendering another poker specific license, so the OLG would then be able to capture that additional revenue?

Poker, in addition to being a highly in demand game amongst casino patrons, is also a huge driver in terms of job creation. Poker rooms require much more labour than slot machines. Given Great Canadian's showcase casino is in Pickering, and you're the MPP for Pickering, I'd think this issue would be of paramount importance to you.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the above.

Best Regards,


END



If I don't get satisfaction here I'll forward the thread to Doug Ford, see if that does anything. If not I think the next stop is the Toronto Sun, they're the most poker friendly media outlet out there. Anyone know anyone at the Sun & care to give me an intro? Private message me if so, otherwise I'll read up on their columnists and see who I think will give me the most open hearing.
Bleh. Casinos are limited in the amount of seats they have available for players. Most (all?) games are limited to 3 players at the moment. A 3 player game is probably great for lots of good players, but the vast majority freak out if there's a seat open for more than a couple minutes when there's a 9-11 seat game. Why would a casino use their resources to have a 3 player poker game instead of any other table games?
Toronto Quote
09-05-2021 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guito
Bleh. Casinos are limited in the amount of seats they have available for players. Most (all?) games are limited to 3 players at the moment. A 3 player game is probably great for lots of good players, but the vast majority freak out if there's a seat open for more than a couple minutes when there's a 9-11 seat game. Why would a casino use their resources to have a 3 player poker game instead of any other table games?
I could see high stakes games running but the dealer pool could be decimated as I think many poker dealers have quit the industry and are exploring other avenues for employment.
Toronto Quote
09-07-2021 , 12:04 AM
caesars windsor finally giving away free rooms again.... may be a portent of something good for poker reopening
Toronto Quote
10-03-2021 , 08:10 PM
Any word on Windsor poker though? I'm assuming if I took the free rooms and gave them no action (played in Detroit), then I'd likely lose my free rooms

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
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10-04-2021 , 11:32 AM
Are we near the point now where we will never see poker again in the GTA for the foreseeable future besides the CNE?

Perhaps OLG will allow someone to open a playground style room somewhere in the GTA since no casinos will allow poker anymore?
Toronto Quote
10-04-2021 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercet
Perhaps OLG will allow someone to open a playground style room somewhere in the GTA since no casinos will allow poker anymore?
That would be ideal but sadly I don't see that happening any time soon either.

Hopefully we'll be back at full capacity soon and the rooms will open back up. Fingers crossed.
Toronto Quote
10-06-2021 , 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercet
Are we near the point now where we will never see poker again in the GTA for the foreseeable future besides the CNE?
Unfortunately it looks that way.

Quote:
Perhaps OLG will allow someone to open a playground style room somewhere in the GTA since no casinos will allow poker anymore?
That would be awesome!
Toronto Quote
10-09-2021 , 09:34 AM
It's insane that the rooms are not open yet. This isn't about safety anymore. Double vaccinated folks with safety measures in place should have been open months ago. I am getting the sense as well as the rooms in the GTA are a thing of the past. Also crossing my fingers for a playground-style room here!

Has anyone had experience playing at Toronto Poker Tournament Series? They have an app and everything, but unsure about trying it out
Toronto Quote
10-11-2021 , 06:38 PM
The Toronto Star has started going at the OLG, this is very good news. When a large media organization starts releasing stories like this it's cause they know something stinks, so they release stories slowly, drip, drip, and hope people send them details for further stories.

Two stories below --
https://www.thestar.com/business/202...ng-market.html

https://www.thestar.com/business/202...t-nations.html
Toronto Quote
10-11-2021 , 06:39 PM
Damn, stories are behind a paywall

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10-11-2021 , 06:42 PM
First one --

‘Breathtaking’: Court slams OLG for breaching revenue-share agreement with First Nations

For the third time in two-and-a-half years a judge has slapped down the Ontario government and the OLG for failing to honour a revenue sharing agreement it made 13 years ago with a consortium of 132 Ontario First Nations.

And the Ontario Court of Appeal ruling could cost the government — possibly tens of millions of dollars.

The case begins with a 2008 revenue sharing agreement between the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation and the Ontario First Nations Limited Partnership (OFNLP). In that agreement, the province is required to give 1.7 per cent of three types of revenue streams to the OFNLP — gambling revenue from sources like lotteries and casino gaming, plus two types of non-gambling revenue such as hotel stays and food and beverage.

But while privatizing the operations of casinos in the province, the OLG unilaterally agreed to allow private operators to keep all non-gambling revenue and did not inform its First Nations partners about the changes, conduct one judge on a three-judge arbitration panel in 2019 called “breathtaking in the age of reconciliation.”

The Sept. 1 ruling by the Court of Appeal upholds an earlier Superior Court ruling that the provincial government and the OLG breached the terms of that landmark revenue-sharing agreement, even though the OLG no longer receives cash from the two non-gambling revenue streams.

The Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General and the OFNLP have both declined to comment on the case, citing a 60-day time limit to appeal the matter to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Written decisions from both the appeal court and the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, which heard the government’s first appeal from the arbitration ruling, paint a picture of a troubled relationship between the OLG and its First Nation partners.

The rulings cite internal OLG emails acknowledging this would be a “hot button issue” as well as communications about the changes with at least one government department but not with the OFNLP.

The 2008 deal was struck to settle a $2-billion claim over an earlier agreement that entitled the First Nations to a share of revenue from the Casino Rama complex, which is located on the reserve lands of The Chippewas of Rama First Nation, near Orillia.

After years of negotiation that included high-level government officials and solemn ceremonies in accordance with First Nations tradition, the province and the OFNLP agreed to a 25-year deal.

It requires the OLG to share a portion of: gambling revenue; the value of goods and services provided to customers on a complimentary basis; and non-gambling revenue such as hotel stays and food and beverages.

The OLG announced plans to privatize casino operations in 2012 and the first new deal with a private player was implemented in 2016. According to court rulings in the case, the OLG did not inform the OFNLP that it agreed to forego the two non-gambling revenue streams as part of that process.

The OLG has said it expected gambling revenues would be higher under privatization, which would generate greater payments to the OFNLP.

In a 2017 press release announcing the arbitration proceedings, OFNLP vice-president Linda Commandant called it “shocking” that politicians were publicly affirming the province’s commitment to revenue-sharing with First Nations groups, “while at the same time Ontario and OLG officials were dealing with third parties behind closed doors to give away the First Nations’ 1.7 per cent share.”

The OLG also declined to comment on the details of the case, but spokesperson Tony Bitonti said the crown corporation “values its long-standing relationship” with the OFNLP. He added that the OLG is “fortunate to have a board member” appointed from a slate of nominees put forth by the First Nations partnership.

Yet, Court of Appeal Justice Mahmud Jamal noted that one of the reasons the First Nations partnership was kept in the dark was because they did not in fact have a representative on the OLG’s board of directors until 2015.

The 2008 agreement guaranteed the OFNLP a seat on the lottery corporation’s board, but the “province and OLG failed to seat a representative” until after the First Nations group launched a separate arbitration on that matter.

The rulings state that the crown corporation was aware that its decision to exclude the two revenue streams could lead to less revenue for the OFNLP, yet did not disclose this.

“At the meeting with OFNLP’s board of directors in December 2015, the chairman of OLG’s board of directors stated that it was ‘time to enter an era of respect’ between OLG and First Nations,” the ruling stated, adding, “But he failed to tell OFNLP’s board about the plan to stop sharing (the two revenue streams) with First Nations.”

Around that time, the OLG told the provincial Ministry of Finance about its plan to stop sharing the two revenue streams with the First Nations partnership. But the ruling states “no one within the Ontario government ever told” the Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation, which was responsible for administering the agreement at the time.

The OFNLP only found out about the OLG’s decision in June 2016, through a footnote in an audited revenue statement.

The court rulings do not specify the amount of damages in the case. In the 2017 press release, the OFNLP estimated it could be “significantly in excess of $100 million.”

OLG’s Bitonti noted that, “In the last couple of years, OLG’s payments to OFNLP were (approximately) $150 million annually,” which is based on 1.7 per cent of the prior fiscal years gross gambling revenues.
Toronto Quote
10-11-2021 , 06:47 PM
Second one. This one really is best viewed directly, it's really long and has a lot of graphs and charts illustrating various things. I emailed the reporter my thoughts on poker as relates to the OLG & GCG, and she took them under advisement.

The inside story of how the OLG lost control of Ontario’s online gambling market

By Christine DobbyBusiness Reporter
Thu., Sept. 30, 2021timer13 min. read

It’s no surprise that over the past two decades, online gambling has grown into a massive global market. With billions in revenue going to websites run by overseas operators, it was only a matter of time before Canada’s biggest province set its sights on making a killing for itself — by recouping a good chunk of that money in taxes.

At the moment, of the close to $1 billion that the provincial government says Ontarians spend gambling online every year, about 70 per cent goes to sites that are unregulated here, big-name players like Bet365, PokerStars and Betway.

In other words, it’s the Wild West. Offshore betting in Ontario is a grey area and since it’s unregulated, the province can do little to keep minors away from betting, help gamblers with addiction issues and combat money laundering.

Now, Ontario is poised to follow the lead of European countries such as Denmark and the United Kingdom and U.S. states like New Jersey. As of December, the plan is for it to become the first province in Canada to allow private companies — including websites licensed outside Canada — to legally offer online gambling to its residents.

“There’s a paradigm shift from criminalizing online gambling to decriminalizing online gambling, primarily because of the player protection aspect,” said Yaniv Spielberg, co-founder and chief strategy officer at Bragg Gaming Group, a Toronto-based gaming technology provider.

Shares of Canadian stocks tied to betting have been on the rise in the past year, which has seen multibillion-dollar takeover deals of domestic firms Great Canadian Gaming Corp. and Score Media by U.S. heavyweights.

Traditional sports media players such as Sportsnet owner Rogers Communications are also circling the sector, and Torstar Corp., which owns the Toronto Star, has said it plans to launch an online casino and will include sports betting in its new venture.

So who, exactly, will manage this massive and soon-to-be-perfectly-legal field?

The natural candidate would be the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. (OLG), the crown corporation that has long managed gambling in the province — including the lottery, a couple dozen casinos and thousands of slot machines — and launched its own internet betting platform in 2015. (Gambling is technically illegal in Canada but under federal law, provinces can “conduct and manage” betting.)

That’s why it was surprising when it was announced last year that, in fact, the OLG would not be in charge.

Nor will it control Ontario’s online market for betting on single sporting events, set to launch at the same time. (Single-sport betting only recently became possible because of a change in federal law; sports betting was previously limited to wagering on multiple events at once, known as parlay bets.)

Instead, when the igaming market launches in December, a new division within the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario (AGCO) will be calling the shots. The OLG will be just another competitor vying for dominance — competing head-to-head with a range of new players, including sophisticated international gambling giants.

“The OLG certainly has a diminished role in this new regime — you no longer have to go to them,” said Cameron MacDonald, a partner and co-chair of the sports and gaming law group at national law firm BLG.

Some say, this could even be the beginning of the end for the provincial gambling corporation.

To get a picture of why the OLG was passed over to manage igaming, the Star spoke with more than a dozen sources close to the gambling sector, the government and the OLG. Most spoke on the condition of anonymity, concerned about future job prospects and relationships with regulators and government.

From these conversations, the Star has learned that the OLG was largely cut out of control of the new market early in the province’s consultations on igaming, which began in 2019.

The reasons for this can be traced back to a privatization plan that didn’t go exactly as planned, falling short of big promises of more tax dollars for the province, and previously unreported clashes between the OLG and Ontario’s gambling regulator and private casino operators.

The OLG did not agree to an interview for this story, but spokesman Tony Bitonti provided a detailed email response to the Star. He said the OLG has a new strategic plan that aims to “re-establish financial performance and accelerate growth across its business lines even as the market in Ontario is being opened to external competition and global innovation.”

“Under our plan, OLG is the driving force behind a vibrant and sustainable gaming marketplace which generates returns for Ontario, creates jobs and develops local economies.”

While the OLG will not manage the new online market, it has not given up on trying to influence the future of igaming and, sources say, is trying to hold on to what power it does have over traditional gambling in the province.

“The minute the online gaming regime launches and is successful, no one needs the OLG any longer,” said one source. “So, it’s existential for them.”


***

The OLG has been around in some form for almost 50 years, but for the last decade, it’s been faced with the strange task of presiding over its own dismantling.

Following a directive from the province to drum up new revenue from gambling, the OLG, under then-board chair Paul Godfrey (chair of Postmedia) and CEO Rod Phillips (now the provincial minister of long-term care), unveiled a “modernization” plan in 2012.

The idea was to transition to a slimmed-down operation, with fewer employees and operational expenses. It would transfer more responsibility for day-to-day operations to the private sector and give them the chance to build new casinos and invest in existing properties to make them more profitable, all while paying sizable fees to the OLG.

But modernization didn’t go as promised. And little did anyone know at the time, but it would set in motion a series of events that led to the OLG losing power over the online market.

There were numerous other stumbles, and the centrepiece of modernization — privatizing casinos — took years longer than the OLG originally forecast.

By 2016, the auditor general said the OLG had cut its initial projections of how much more profit modernization would bring into the province in six years by more than 65 per cent.

The OLG eventually reached eight agreements with a total of four private casino companies — Great Canadian (now owned by Apollo), Gateway Casinos, Hard Rock, and Mohegan Gaming and Entertainment — assigning them long-term rights tied to certain geographical areas. (Caesars Entertainment continues to operate the casino in Windsor under an earlier agreement.)

But the contracts included detailed requirements on business operations and tensions over these unwieldy agreements would eventually factor into the sidelining of the OLG on igaming.

A woman breezes past the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Association prize headquarters on Dundas St. W. on Sept. 29, 2021. The provincial government recently said Ontarians spend close to $1 billion gambling online every year, and about 70 per cent of that is on sites that are unregulated here.

It seemed to many like the opposite of private-sector efficiency to generate more tax revenue. And it duplicated the efforts of the province’s actual gaming regulator, the AGCO.

Around the time of modernization, the AGCO introduced a more hands-off approach to regulation. Instead of spelling out exactly how to run things, the AGCO focused on outcomes it wanted to achieve, such as keeping minors off casino floors, and largely left it up to operators to accomplish those ends.

But where the AGCO backed off, the OLG stepped in. For example, the AGCO eliminated a requirement that operators seek approval to move gaming equipment, such as a slot machine, but the OLG reintroduced that requirement.

Stephen Rigby, former national security adviser to then-prime minister Stephen Harper, was CEO for most of the OLG’s casino privatization process. Sources said under his tenure the organization became increasingly focused on compliance, and relations with its casino partners grew adversarial.

And outright hostility soon developed between the OLG and AGCO, a situation multiple sources described as unprecedented and surprising.

The Star has learned that the conflict between the OLG and AGCO grew so bad that by 2019, the provincial government asked Tom Marinelli, a former long-time OLG executive who acted as interim CEO on two occasions, to investigate.

“There are hundreds of pages of controls, mandatory operating procedures and protocols that have been layered on top of the contracts that prescribe daily operations,” the Canadian Gaming Association, a lobby group for the gambling industry, wrote in a confidential letter to Marinelli in 2019.

“This has created unnecessary conflict and oversight burden between OLG, the AGCO and casino operators.”

The CGA told Marinelli that the OLG’s approach was not in line with the original intent of the modernization plan, had impeded revenue growth and had “discouraged the creation of new, incremental jobs and investment in Ontario.”

Bitonti said the contracts are comprehensive because they cover multi-year terms and are meant to protect the public interest, adding, “OLG’s casino operators are sophisticated commercial partners … which consented to the terms of the contracts.”

Against the backdrop of this swirling conflict, the province announced in the spring of 2019 that it planned to legalize online betting.

After early meetings to gather industry feedback, the writing was soon on the wall for the OLG and its role in the new market.

During one pivotal meeting in late June 2019, a range of gaming industry stakeholders gathered in a conference room in the Frost building, which houses the Ministry of Finance, across the street from Queen’s Park and the legislative buildings in downtown Toronto.

Bureaucrats from both the departments of finance and the attorney general were in attendance and just before the meeting began, Attorney General Doug Downey himself arrived.

David Pridmore, a senior vice-president at the OLG, was also on hand, and private casino operators, offshore online gaming companies and gambling technology providers were also represented either in the room or on the conference call line.

One of the first questions raised was about who should conduct and manage the new market. It seemed innocuous enough, a point of almost arcane procedure necessary to ensure compliance with the federal law.

But according to multiple sources involved in the meeting, the answers were polite — it was awkward with Pridmore in the room, one source said — but consistent: not the OLG.

For one, with its own online betting platform, the OLG would be a competitor in the new market, and no one wanted to hand over customer or business information to a rival.

But sources said stakeholders at the meeting were also deeply concerned about the OLG’s reputation, based in part on past experiences of the casino operators, as a micromanager that acted as a second regulator in the space and demonstrated little trust toward its partners.

“Nobody was gratuitous,” said one source, “But they said, ‘We’re not working with these guys.’ ”

***

All just a wager
Wild projections abound on the size of the market for online sports betting in Ontario and Canada, but industry experts say some should be taken with a grain of salt.
$10 billion

The amount the Canadian Gaming Association estimates Canadians spend each year on illegal bookmaking operations, but the criminal element makes this amount difficult to verify.

$323 million

The amount H2 Gambling Capital estimates Canadians spent on unregulated sports betting websites in 2019, after accounting for prizes and winnings paid out.

$19 million

Total spending by Canadians (after prize money) on regulated sports betting websites in 2019.

$340 million to
$708 million

The potential size of Ontario’s new regulated online sports betting market within two years of legalization, according to a PwC report on the Canadian market. The range between the lower and higher amounts depends on factors such as the tax rate imposed (a lower tax rate is expected to attract more private operators to the licensed regime), and the Star performed a rough calculation of Ontario’s portion based on its percentage of the Canadian population.

After the Frost building meeting, the AGCO took the lead on further consultations with the industry, and the decision was formalized in the provincial budget last November: the government would create a new subsidiary of the AGCO to conduct and manage the igaming market.

The new subsidiary, iGaming Ontario, was officially established in July and will manage commercial agreements with online gambling operators. So far, it is a small agency with a separate board from the AGCO itself, which will continue to regulate the industry and license private operators.

The provincial government did not comment specifically on the decision to give the AGCO responsibility for the new market.

The AGCO told the Star it works collaboratively “wherever possible” with the OLG. Spokesperson Raymond Kahnert said the AGCO has tried to reduce regulatory burdens in the industry, adding, “We are committed to working with the OLG to identify and eliminate areas of overlap, duplication and burden in the casino sector.”

Bitonti also said the OLG is “collaborating well” and has a “renewed sense of partnership” with the AGCO.

He said privatization has brought “world-class casino brands” to the province and private operators have invested about $1.5 billion in additional capital and created 500 new jobs (based on pre-pandemic numbers). “Without private sector involvement, these investments wouldn’t have been possible.”

Asked about the OLG, representatives for Ontario’s private casino operators largely said in brief statements that they have positive relationships with the organization (Hard Rock did not comment and Mohegan said it meets regularly with the OLG.)

Unless it’s handing out a novelty cheque to a lottery winner, the OLG tries to stay out of the news.

When it does make the papers, the OLG is often tied to some sort of controversy, such as fraud allegations over lottery insiders claiming winning tickets or a scandal over internal spending.

But before the impact of the pandemic, the OLG funnelled close to $2.5 billion in gambling profits to the treasury department every year. That dividend is worth roughly the same to the province as the gas tax or alcohol sales from the LCBO, and industry insiders say this has long helped protect the OLG politically.

Yet, the OLG is likely to face renewed scrutiny later this year and could struggle to justify its size — and public gaffes — as the online market takes off.

Earlier this year, OLG board chair Peter Deeb quietly left his post and the Toronto Sun reported his departure was tied to a police investigation in which he was later cleared. (The Ontario Provincial Police would not comment on Deeb but a spokesperson said it was involved in an investigation “related to Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp.” but “no criminal offence was identified” and no charges were laid). Bitonti said Deeb told the OLG he was stepping down for “personal reasons.” The government has yet to appoint a permanent replacement for Deeb.

Rigby, who was CEO for five years, had already said he planned to step down last year when the OLG came under fire for paying executive bonuses during the pandemic after the government extended the organization a line of credit to weather COVID-19 closures.

Earlier in his tenure, Rigby also faced reports of expensive office renovations that spurred Premier Doug Ford to promise an audit of the OLG’s expenses.

Two years later, the audit has yet to be published. Ministry of Finance spokesperson Emily Hogeveen said it will be “complete in the next few weeks and subsequently published.”

Sources close to the industry expect the audit to address whether expenses at the OLG—which has about 1,350 full and part-time employees and two head offices in Sault Ste. Marie and Toronto—are outsized considering it has outsourced responsibility for casinos in the province.

A review of the OLG’s annual revenue, expenses and net income paid to the province since 2012 shows that by 2018-19 (the last full year not affected by COVID-19), its profit margin — net income as a percentage of overall revenue — had remained flat at about 27 per cent.

The organization’s revenues increased over that time to $8.4 billion, up from $6.7 billion in 2011-12. But expenses — which include prize money and fees paid to the casino operators as well as the OLG’s own overhead spending on items such as payroll, marketing and IT — also ticked steadily up, growing to $6.2 billion by 2018-19, up from $5.1 billion pre-modernization.

Bitonti said casino revenue has gone up by about $600 million annually since the modernization process began and that the OLG’s profit “solely from gaming revenue” has grown by $450 million.

When the audit is eventually published, the OLG is expected to face calls to justify the ongoing bureaucracy and legacy costs of the organization. And that will come as the province heads toward launch day on a significant new market.

The Ministry of Finance is in the midst of finalizing the commercial terms of this new market, including the tax rate online operators will have to pay. Industry lobbyists have proposed rates in the range of 15 to 20 per cent (and even lower than that for sports betting, which operates on very thin profit margins).

However, the Star has learned that the OLG has been advocating for a tax rate of more than 30 per cent, a rate sources say would be a disincentive to online players entering the regulated regime, as many of them are already operating in the province and paying zero tax.

“The OLG responds to requests for information from the (government) on a range of gaming/lottery topics on a regular basis,” Bitonti said. He did not comment on the rate the OLG recommended.

When the federal government legalized betting on single sports events in late August, the OLG was the only operator in the province approved to take wagers and took advantage of its head start by heavily promoting its Proline+ product. Meanwhile, its casino partners still face uncertainty over whether and how they can run sportsbooks of their own.

Bitonti said the OLG is in “active dialogue” with them over sports betting at casinos and how private players could use existing customer data to expand into the igaming space.

“The OLG was a monopoly for a very long time and offered a subpar product,” said Bragg Gaming’s Spielberg.

“Ultimately the OLG as we know it today will die if they don’t step up their game against all these private operators that are coming in with years of experience in very major jurisdictions around the world.”
Toronto Quote
10-14-2021 , 08:11 AM
Good news. Hopefully this brings back poker with casinos at full capacity.

"The easing of pandemic measures will include ending capacity limits in all locations where proof-of-vaccination requirements are in place..."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ge-3-1.6209162
Toronto Quote
10-15-2021 , 01:00 AM
good news but its disgusting how long its taking. just open up POKER ffs

US literally acts like its over with how many poker rooms are running, and have been running, for so many months now.
Toronto Quote

      
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