Abe, I haven't been back to Harrah's since the wsop-c. I play at Lumiere since it is closer to me. I plan on going to River City tomorrow to check it out for the first tiime. Will post mini tr tomorrow night.

I'm pretty sure Harrahs went back to $4 + 1 and yes Ameristar is taking $2 from pots to build their BBJ.

Was thinking about making my first trip to River City this afternoon to play some 3/6 and their tournament. If I get there at 1, is it going to be sold out? Should I expect the same quality of play as Lumiere, or something a little different?

I played the tourny on Tue afternoon at River City.....out in 11th. Went good in the beginning but card dead at the end. They only had 20 players but still payed out 4 places. Made money in the pits. Cash games played soft. I only play at Lumiere but would go to river city for the omaha games.

I might go to saint louis this weekend. PM, call or text me. Wanted to try out the new 4-8 legendary game (at least legendary according to domino).

might split a room with someone if they are interested for saturday night too.

Is Omaha Hi/Lo running more often than Friday and Saturday nights? I was there around Easter and a 3/6 game with a kill didn't get going until 9 PM or so, and only ran for about 4 hours per night.

FYI, I believe that the KC Ameristar is doing this also.

Yes all Ameristar properties are doing this. The memo came down from corporate headquarters after they tried it at Ameristar's Black Hawk CO Casino and though the idea was a good business idea.

Are there any liveaments around St. Louis in the < $100 range where they don't kill you with rake and tourney fees? I've wanted to play the Harrah's $40 or $60 buyins but it's like 15% rake PLUS another 7% goes towards a monthly freeroll or something. It could even out if you play consistently and get into the freerolls every month and freeride on the prizepool donated by those who don't show up, but jesus I will never pay over 15% rake for poker, much less anything closer to 25-30% that these lower limit tourneys offer.
Any advice for the smaller rolled players out there that don't want to get raped by rake? I'd appreciate any advice!

This is always going to be the case with low buy in tourneys, inherently. Play the 125's and up at Harrahs. Lower rake and better structure. You'd be better off playing a $125 rather than two $60's.

Yes, Friday and Saturday are the nights where the game runs most often. Typically a game will start up around 7pm(sometimes earlier if enough people show up...usually happens on saturdays) or so and run for atleast 5 hours. I'm not sure if the game runs on other nights as I usually don't visit until the weekend.

Home games are probably your best bet. I never play live tourneys at the casinos because the rake is rough.

I am a some-what active 2p2'er .. Just arrived in St. Louis yesterday for the first time. As soon as the arch came in to view poker face came on the radio. Funny because I never turn on the radio. It made me feel good about the trip.. anyway.. I don't know anyone here (minus meeting Erik from Image Masters once). And am chilling at my room at Harrahs (room service closes at 10pm on Friday night WTF man???)

So I've been Googling. These appear to the area poker rooms:
Which are best on Sat nights for a generally profitable 1-2/1-3/2-5 NLH player.

Ameristar 636.949.7777 One Ameristar Blvd, 63301 (1-3nl)
River City (314) 388-7777 777 River City Casino Boulevard 63125
Lumiere Place (314) 450-5000 999 North 2nd Street, 63102
President Casino (314) 622-3000 1 North Leonor K Sullivan Boulevard
Harrahs - Eh.. Im here. Not much action last night

Feel free to PM if your in the area and want to talk about the WSOP or somethin.

CD / Geoff

I don't play NLHE, but I know you can strike the President Casino from your list. Hopefully some NLHE players can steer you where you need to go.

Lumiere or River City would probably be your best bet for NL if Harrah's isn't doing it for you.

Here's something for the wish list. Not being sufficiently bankrolled for 1/2 (or 1/3), I would love it if there were a .50/1 no limit game available somewhere in STL...or a 1/1 with a $100 max buyin since nobody really uses 50 cent chips...or something like that.

It would also be cool if certain rooms/tables would allow players to run it twice. I don't think this is too likely since probably 75% of people have never heard of running it twice, but it would be nice to reduce variance. I have a hard time scraping together the cash to buy in full, and when my stack disappears on a two-outer (after the flop, 92-8 percent favorite, blah blah), that hurts.

Is the answer to play 3/6 limit for a while instead? How difficult is it to grind out a good profit in the Harrah's 3/6 limit game?

Just my observations, questions, and take on recent STL poker landscape. (1) Where have the 2-5 games gone since WSOP circuit event? Had as many as 8 going when I was there all week. Funny thing is how all the tables commented on great it was to have it going strong in STL again yet its practically dead again. One local I've played with frequently even commented how disappointing it was hoping to play 2-5 against some out of towners only to find 75% plus locals. In particular most guys were in the 40-65 age range. Seen only a few of these guys since. (2) I love the 1-2-5 game at Ameristar. I've had many agree at other poker rooms while playing. However, the $4 plus $2 jackpot is a joke. Despite many players using comment cards to voice their displeasure the Ameristar higher ups continue to think this practice will fill the room with badbeat chasers when you can't fill the room in the first place except for the low dollar bad structure donkaments. Can the bad beats crawl any slower? Would the 1-2-5 go if they discontinued the $2 jackpot drop? (3) Is there any more annoying game than the nitty Harrahs 1-2..$200 max. Anybody like to see it as a 1-3 or just change to a $300 max. (4) Best nl action is at Lumiere hands down. Had 3 1-3 and 1 5-10 still going strong at 3am on Tuesday night (5) Obviously the recession has hurt poker here. Any other reasons the rooms are dead except for weekend nights? Speaking of which...Would you believe I played 1-2 at Ameristar on a Sat at 430pm-6pm 4 handed as the only nl game available at the time there? Just how bad is it getting? (6) River City lighting is fixed and kudos for the variety of games available sat. night with only 10 tables. I personally thoght this room would be busy for a year or 2 due to something actually resembling entertainment was built south of St. Louis. Thought alot of home game players from Arnold, Festus, Barnhart, etc. would bring in the players. Was or am I wrong? Just like to hear some other players thoughts and opinions. Thanks for reading and hope I wasn't too long winded.

Just a few thoughts on what Franker just wrote about on the last post:

1-I have no idea where the 1/2/5 or 2/5 games have gone. I do believe the economy is affecting a lot of people and that is part of it. I also think the areawide 1/2 or 1/3 games are filled with horrible players and many of the 2/5 guys are happy to just sit with them. Twice in the past week at Ameristar, as they called the 1/2/5 list, 4 regular people changed their minds to play due to killing the 1/2.

2-Out of all area poker rooms, I prefer Ameristar by a wide margin. Part of that is due to it being close to home. Part of that is because they have *mostly* very good dealers. They also have by far the best actual room--atmosphere/tables/chairs/layout/etc. As far as the increased amount taken out of the pots--it makes no sense to me either. But that, from what I understand was not a room decision--it was a corporate decision that they have to abide by. Keep the negative comments flowing about it and it may be changed back.

3-"Is there any more annoying game than the 1/2 at Harrahs"? Yes--any game at Harrahs. They have a very good floor staff, but the room itself may be the worst I've ever been inside in any city. Add that to the fact Harrahs as a corporate entity is one of the worst in North America, and you really have little reason to play there. Ameristar and Lumiere are much better rooms/properties.

I have yet to play at River City but have heard good things from many people. As it would take 7 weeks to get there from my area of O'Fallon MO, I rarely will be going. Lumiere tho continues to impress---I agree Franker, and I may have to start going more and more due to the great action...

Any word from anyone when the Heartland is coming back? That was pretty well run and look forward to it returning on a regular basis.

AceTenGuy

I doubt a casino would go for this as fewer pots would reach maximum rake. If you want to play smaller, the 7 stud game that runs on friday nights has no antes and only $1 bring in. Alternately you can grind it out online at those stakes.

I would stay away from 3/6 and tourneys for trying to build a roll.. I have been playing with $100 in the 1/2 and 1/3 games in the area and the only problem is I miss a lot of value.. $200 pots could be $600, I have to leave when I'm up to a full buy-in, ect.. I have almost tripled my starting $500 roll in less than 20 hours of play. If you table select at all and play at the best times (Late weekend nights before last call) your going to be facing a $11 straddle/raise called 5 ways by the time you look down at your hand on the button.

1- I think the 1/3 games killed it.. Fish have no other NL options and the good regs are already playing $500+ deep after a few hours. The only rooms that still get it running are the ones that are 1/2.. Is Ameristar's lowest game 1/2 or 1/3? As far as I know Harrah's is the only one that still runs 1/2 and also gets a 2/5 going daily.. I have been playing a lot more in the city though the past couple of years so this might not still be true.

2. I always liked ameristar too but it just never had any traffic. The comment above about being 4 handed at the only nl game on a Saturday night pretty much sums up every trip I've ever had there. I don't get it because Harrah's is a couple miles away and always had 5+ nl games going right before last hand is called on a weekday night. I see the same thing with River city and Lumiere. Same company, about 15 minutes away from each other, same games, ect... but you have the regs downtown calling them then laughing at the 1 table they have running on a weekday.

3. Harrah's.. I've only played there because the traffic is already there. Only place I have ever been able to chose from 5+ games at any random hour of the day.. The worst live games still don't come close to the way online plays, even at the micros. Other than that no reason for me to go out there. Its about a 45 minute drive from my house and if its rush hour just kill me now.

FYI: I live less than 5 minutes from River city and it takes me about 15mins to get to Lumiere downtown. Its like 10 miles down the highway. Sucks that it doesn't matter because they are dead if its not a weekend.

5-10 runs on tuesday nights which pulls the 2-5 players and can stretch their bankrolls if they are playing up. The 1-3 is the biggest reason that 2-5 has died off. Regs don't want to play 2-5 and risk more when they can win almost as much if not more at a juicy 1-3 table.
The 2-5 is making a comeback on weekends downtown with 2 games running every friday night and at least one game running on saturdays. The max buy in is $1000 and the game has been getting good action especially when the cards are in town.
The 1-2-5 PLO game at harrahs also pulled some of the 2-5 regs and decimated their bankrolls.

Thanks for recent replies and input from my earlier post. Totally agree w/ 2-5 disappearing due to the combination of 1)Juicy 1-3 games 2)Action of 1-2-5 PLO and 3)to a lesser degree the better 2-5ers jumping at the 5-10 on Tues. at Lumiere. This still doesn't explain the 40-65 age group at WSOP circuit event just glowing and commenting time after time how great it was seeing each other again and how they hope the game would sustain itself. Where the heck are these guys? I also am baffled at the # of tables Harrahs gets at the 1-2 $200 max game. Room is well run when I've been there and usually have 5+ tables of that nitfest slow boring game even when the bad beat is well under $200000. Ameristar has the nicest room in STL. Lots of room and beautiful. What a travesty to see the empty room for higher games! Its action has been a roller coaster even discounting the HPT there in Nov. Moving the room downstairs was a great move. As little as 2 months ago they had 5 1-2 $200 games and 2 1-2-5 games on a sat. night and then you run in to that 4 handed fiasco on sat. 2 weeks ago...I remember that room having all 18 tables filled on fri and sat nights 2-3 years ago. So it hasn't always been dead yet Harrahs can stay steady for the most part being a few miles away? Can't figure it out. Glad to hear the 2-5 making comeback at Lumiere on weekends. Funny that 2-5 would go there when it has by far the juiciest 1-3 game in STL. Based on what was said earlier about juicy 1-3 killin 2-5? Can't figure it out either. Maybe that why I'm so intrigued about the poker landscape here at home...LOL

There was 1/2/5 with a list at Harrah's last night.




I think the room is OK. At least it's an actual room. It's glassed in to eliminate slot machine noise and smoke, and unlike Lumiere, you don't have people standing 10 feet away from you blowing smoke directly into the poker "room" (area). I stink when I leave Lumiere.

OTOH, the chairs are amazingly comfortable at Lumiere compared to Harrah's. That's a big factor when you're sitting down for hours and hours. The WSOP logo chairs are slick and everything, but give me the Lumiere chairs any day. They are nice.

What don't you like about the Harrah's room? I like it, personally, but I'm a rookie and haven't been to many different places. Harrah's is the most convenient place for me, so that's where I go. Where does Harrah's fall short and what's better about the other ones?

I played 3/6 two nights ago and for the first part of last night, and man was it annoying. I'll never try that again. Way too easy to drool off all your chips.

Luckily I got a $150 loan from a friend, sat down at 1/2, got incredibly lucky (flopped a boat and got it all in by the river), tripled it, and now have a couple buyins in my wallet to go back to 1/2. FINALLY a winning session after a horrendous two-week downswing.

I've only been to Lumiere once, and got my stack whittled away by the $16 straddle maniacs when I was missing flops and unable to bluff anyone off of a hand. With a short bankroll, it's tough to deal with that.

Went to Lumiere last night. Agree on the chairs. Played for 5 hours and didn't feel soar in any way. The game was lose. People sitting down with a lotta 'bling' on and I was able to 3.5x my initial buy-in. Finally.. phew..