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Old 07-12-2018, 09:59 PM   #1
Tommy Carlo
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Snoqualmie Casino (Snoqualmie, WA)

Here's a good one. They are taking the poker jackpot funds and putting it into an Ultimate Texas Hold'Em jackpot, calling it a 'similar game'.

Also, the Washington State Gambling Commission didn't hear that and start laughing. They repeated it as if it makes any sense at all.

Oh well... gg Sno Casino

_________________

Good afternoon Mr. Johnson
I called and left you a message but wanted to follow-up in writing too.

I received your complaint that the Snoqualmie casino “player-funded poker jackpot fund is about to be confiscated and given to the slot machine progressive payout fund.”

I spoke with the Snoqualmie Tribal Gaming Director Daniel Hanson yesterday about the poker room closing down and that the player supported jackpot (PSJ) monies are being moved to the progressive jackpot for Ultimate Texas Hold’em located in the gaming pits.

The Tribal casino’s do not operate under WA Administrative Code (WAC); instead they operate under Tribal-State Compacts. And, unfortunately there is no mention of PSJ under these Compacts. And, as a result the casino can actually do anything they wish with these monies in cases like this. However, the casino has decided to move these monies into a similar poker game located in their pit, with the PSJ money going into a progressive jackpot which all players will have an opportunity to win.

I am not sure where you heard that the monies are going to ‘slot machine progressive payout fund’ but that is not what is happening.

I am sorry I can’t help you.

Sincerely Jon


Jon Godfrey
Washington State Gambling Commission

{phone and email redacted}
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:51 PM   #2
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Ouch.

Out of curiosity, approximately how much was in the fund?
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:17 PM   #3
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Carlo View Post
The Tribal casino’s do not operate under WA Administrative Code (WAC); instead they operate under Tribal-State Compacts. And, unfortunately there is no mention of PSJ under these Compacts. And, as a result the casino can actually do anything they wish with these monies in cases like this.
Sad but true in most tribal casinos. Bye bye money. Also curious how much it was...
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:25 PM   #4
Tommy Carlo
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Last time I checked, 40k or so. I'll get an updated number.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:28 AM   #5
Tommy Carlo
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

56.5k
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:11 AM   #6
DaveC95818
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

All the more reason that Indian Gaming and their tribal laws, operations and the like are one thing,....BUT, the American consumer needs to be serviced and protected in a better way by states that want to do just that. I'm thinking that I.G. has started to run its course, and states need to fully legalize gaming and get in there, protect their taxpayers and consumers, and help grow the industry. Taxes, jobs, entertainment and adjacent economic benefit await.
Or, like California, be a politician whopse elections/rel-elections are fully supported by IG and the tribes, and do nothing.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:56 PM   #7
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

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Originally Posted by DaveC95818 View Post
BUT, the American consumer needs to be serviced and protected in a better way by states that want to do just that.
Employees, too.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:00 AM   #8
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

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Employees, too.
yes, agree.....well said
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:49 AM   #9
Tommy Carlo
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Employees especially.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:42 PM   #10
Ray Zee
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

well indians deem themselves a sovereign nation and not the u.s. but like being citizens and getting both benefits. not arguing whether they deserve it or not but you have to know that they make and set their own rules just like the smoking ban.

if what they do falls under state rules it pays to try to get them enforced.

but when you go to another nation for a visit you have to realize you arent being protected the same as if in the real u.s.

its like going to the mafia for a loan. you may get the money but what goes with it is scary.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:51 PM   #11
BDHarrison
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

I thought I posted in this thread already, but oh well.

The casino does not appear to be violating any rules, laws, or regulations. They could choose to simply pocket the money and not make it available to any gamblers.

If you disagree, cite a rule that they are breaking. You could also consider contacting the tribal, rather than state, gaming commission and see if they are violating some internal control documents.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:17 PM   #12
Ray Zee
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

if the money is taken out as a rake then no but if it is taken out as a poker promotion then all thepoker players have a vested interest in that money. no different than selling lottery tickets and then saying you are keeping all the money or diverting it to the homeless.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:17 PM   #13
BDHarrison
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
if the money is taken out as a rake then no but if it is taken out as a poker promotion then all thepoker players have a vested interest in that money. no different than selling lottery tickets and then saying you are keeping all the money or diverting it to the homeless.
The players have an interest, but the gaming commission's only interest is what violates the law. Sometimes, a thing is both perfectly legal and unfair.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:35 PM   #14
Ray Zee
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

it likely isnt legal. but unfortunately that has to be decided by a court.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:55 PM   #15
SuperFinn
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Poker players have zero viable recourse if playing poker in a Tribal casino. In other words, you are screwed. Money talks, that is it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:07 PM   #16
seattle
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

The part that boggles the mind is that they continue to collect jackpot.

Why not simply stop collecting it now, double the payout, and end all promotions when money run out.

No money and no issue.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:11 PM   #17
BDHarrison
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

I actually think it is likely to be legal. The court that would decide it would be the tribal court, I suspect.

The website describes it as a "Player Supported Jackpot Rake". Most promotions such as this have rules about how the funds are supposed to be used. This usually includes rules for dealing with any excess funds, should the promotion end. If they are violating that wording, then the tribal (and not state) gaming agency is the proper authority. If the promotion rules don't include any language for dealing with the money, then the casino can probably do whatever it wants. It's possible that the casino is doing exactly what the rules specify by moving the funds to a different in-house progressive game.

I think it is extremely likely that they looked at the rules for dealing with the money and chose an option which was consistent with those rules.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:30 PM   #18
e1cnr
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

maybe they need a suggestion have a giant freeroll for all card members their last week of operation.

Swinomish (Anacortes/Laconner) and Angel of the Winds (Marysville) closed their rooms in last couple years as well.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:17 AM   #19
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Doubt you will find those rules online since they aren't 'state' rules, but they 'should' be available upon request at the casino .. and maybe with a copying fee attached. GL
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:24 AM   #20
timeofyouppi
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC95818 View Post
Or, like California, be a politician whopse elections/rel-elections are fully supported by IG and the tribes, and do nothing.
When an Indian casino near San Diego closed its poker room a couple years ago, they were required to liquidate their entire promo fund back to the players before closing

http://www.thechipboard.com/archives...ing-this-week/
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:00 AM   #21
Tommy Carlo
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Well, my ancestors (or whatever - we came later) took their ancestors' (or whatever, I could go on) land, lives, health, wealth, etc. so if this is the worst thing that happens to me in my lifetime with respect to US - original nations relations I'm ok with it. No real way to rationalize any of this, or find justice in it, or try to comprehend it in a way that is satisfying for anyone. I guess my original point is that the Washington Gaming Commission doesn't know the difference between poker and Ultimate Texas Hold'Em. LOL gambling regulators.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:52 AM   #22
BDHarrison
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

My point is that it doesn't matter how much of a difference there is between poker and UTH and the gaming commission has no say if the tribe moved the money into a slot progressive.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:45 AM   #23
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Re: Snoqualmie, WA poker room shutting down

Here is the Website of the tribal gaming commission:

https://www.snoqualmietribe.us/SGC

I haven't played there in years but I'd encourage all interested parties to write to them. Aside from the time to compose a short letter/email it's a freeroll.
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