Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincePuffin
I want to stop talking about out of turn action, please. Nobody is arguing about OOT action. We are talking specifically about those instances when a bet or raise has been made, the action is on the player who undercalls, they are ordering a drink, watching tv, talking to a friend on the rail, staring at their phone, etc. throw out a $2 limp, then realize “Oh ****, the bet is $12? Never mind” and the dealer lets them take the $2 back.
My issue is, rule the same every time for everyone. I have been made to surrender money to a pot when I put out less than I realized was bet and the dealer says “�� sorry it’s gotta stay”. I have watched the same scenario where the player put out less than a call and the dealer slides their chips back to them. Nobody claimed gross misunderstanding when I was forced to leave my money in. So which is it?
The TDA rules eliminated the gross misunderstanding rule, so under those rules the only question is whether a player can fold and forfeit what he put out, or whether he must put out a full raise. What I'm not sure about is if the THR has also eliminated the gross misunderstanding rule from the cash games. I know they used to have it for cash games, but dont know if they now use the TDA undercall rules in cash games.
The gross misunderstanding rule doesnt necessarily only apply to large bets. And depending on the situation, a player may or may not be able to take their chips back. For example, in a 1/2nl game, there are several limps, then the player in seat 8 raises to 12. The player n seat 1 misses that and puts out $2, clearly indicating he understands the bet to be 2. RROP's gross misunderstanding rule would allow the player to take back the 2 as by putting out exactly the amount of the earlier bets, its clear he misunderstands the action.
OTOH, if there are several limps of 2, seat 8 raises to 20, and then seat 1 puts out 15 he is required by RROP to complete the call to 20. So there are situations that appear the same, but actually differ in the ruling.
But as I said, I cant say for sure whether the THR follows the TDA rule for undercalls or the RROP rule. I would suggest checking with a shift manager. And if what he says doesnt match your experience, let him know. If it appears to be a problem he could choose to add it to weekly notes to dealers for emphasis.
Everyone wants consistent rulings. But the fact is is that when you have over 150 dealers, many new, many coming from rooms with certain house rules that differ, it takes time to get everyone on the same sheet of music. And sometimes in the middle of a shift, even an experienced dealer or floor may simply forget that a certain rule was changed recently, and revert back to the way it has been for years. They're human.
If you dont think a dealer made a correct call you can always ask for a floor. Or if you dont want to hold up the game, you can ask a manager away from the table.