Exactly. the taken of the jackpot rake when there no flop is robbery.

Taking a jackpot rake PF is pretty bad, Really wish they wouldn't, The Isle doesn't take any jackpot rake PF

Looking at the November promo's and comparing to the other venues, it now appears to this Limit Hold'em grinder as if it's time to say "Adios, HardRock."

The reasons?

1: No more VISA gift cards. I've "lost my job". That extra $4.16/hour (120 hours, $4.68/hour for 160 hours) plus "poker rewards") makes a big difference in my bottom line, and the bottom line of well over 100 regulars.

2: "My" cash game promotion dollars being used to fund tournaments. I am a cash game "specialists" who does NOT play tournaments, and does not want to play tournaments.

I want 100% of "MY" promotion money returned to the cash games. I definitely do not consider it "appropriate" for the house to "take a rake" from those promotional dollars on those tournament entries, as is done in "player fees", and often/usually not being allowed to transfer to sell that entry to others. IMHO, so very inappropriate. Promotion money from players should be returned to the players 100%. Poker rooms are not entitled to profit from player promotional money, other than to "promote" more action in the live games by drawing new players into the room.

Splashing the pots or high hands with tournament entries is just (IMHO) wrong.

Of course, I am not a tournament player, and have yet to "cash" in any of the "free entry" tournies I've played. To me, a waste of time, as those hours would have been spent by me in a cash game instead.

3: Limit players are poorly treated. From the dirty overcrowded stud tables being used 9 handed, to starting new games and leaving existing games 7 handed, to the uncomfortable chairs, lack of space and pathways, and so much more.

BTW: Have you even looked at the filthy, disgusting and dirty chips lately? Or tables, chairs, floor, etc?

The other Broward venues seem to have offered better promos in October, and to be offering "better" promotions in November. I "gave up" on gift cards for October, to play promotions instead at other venues. And I will, most likely, continue in November.

Too bad. I played less than 25 hours H.R. in October, down from 160/month in prior months. I may not play any hours in November at HR.

I will admit that I am a "promotion" player. I will play where my "EV" is highest. That no longer appears to be the Hard Rock.

Gift cards were a perfect way to re pay the regulars for there jake pot rake. Averages full time player contributes 400 to 800 a month towards those promotions. Poker rooms survive on regulars. Between the nine handed games now and the jackpot rake its becoming to to expensive to play poker as a regular at the HR. What about the 1$ jackpot rip off if there's no flop so if u steal the blinds u only get 6$ because theY rape the pot for that jackpot 1$. RIP OFF CITY.

Do you live in Hollywood or nearby? I was just curious as to where you plan on playing the majority of the time now. Also, do you know if BestBetJax takes the jackpot rake preflop? I feel dumb because I've played there many times and never paid attention to this!

Yes. The Hard Rock Hollywood is >7.5 miles from my home. The "other" poker rooms are all a longer commute, twice the distance on average.

As to where I now plan to play the majority of my time is still somewhat up in the air. I am only interested in the "EV" of promotions, and it currently looks like I'll be spending time "south" of the HR at two different poker rooms, depending on the day of the week.

I do know:

I will probably play far fewer hours November, perhaps as little as 80/month. Those gift cards, coupled with promos, motivated me to play 120-160 hours.

My cost to "commute" will more than double. (BTW: HR poker rewards can not be used at the Seminole gas station, although casino points can. In fact, "Poker Rewards" will not buy cigarettes, nor spend in the gift shop either, and most Paradise restaurants will not accept them. BIG thumbs down on that. ) The gift cards could be used to pay for fuel, food, etc.

My "EV" will be less than when gift cards were earned. Although the gift cards were not a "profit" in/of themselves, coupled with the promotions, they did provide a comfortable cushion.


hth

Yes, BestBetJax does drop if pots over $10 preflop

+10000000000

^this X10000000000

What are the other Broward venues offering in November?

+1000000000

I have been trying to get William Mason to eliminate jackpot raking if no flop for over a year and a half now but nothing has changed.

It is costing me on average about $3 per session which doesnt seem like much but add it up over the long run and now we are into the thousands of dollars. In 2011 I played 212 and in 2012 I have played 181 sessions so far.

Total sessions 393 X $3/session = $1179

By the end of the year it is going to cost me about $1300 to my bottom line which is 2.5 buy-ins in a 2/5 game and 4.33 buy-ins in a 1/2 game. To some of us that live off poker that is alot of money, I could of used it to pay for my gas or whatever.

Also, this jackpot raking is a huge scam when we have ZERO chance of hitting a high hand or getting other promotions because we get to see NO flop. So basically we are just burning money.

Do your own math per session and you will be shocked how much it is costing your bottom line.

Hopefully William Mason will listen to us the regulars who keep the tables full and eliminate jackpot raking when no flop.

Just go to the isle then!
Make all the casinos go no flop no jackpot

The insentive isn't there anymore to play at the hardrock. It's become to expensive to play there. Gift cards was a Guinness idea to pay back the regulars considering each regular pays 300$ to 800$ a month in jackpot rake.

POKER ROOMS SURVIVE ON REGULARS.

Someone in poker management at the Hard Rock, in the recent past, said to me, (The following may not be an exact, verbatim quote, but does convey the message)

"We are a business. It is much better for us to have 10 tables of 9 players, than 9 tables 10 handed. It generates more revenue."

As a CUSTOMER, I have the right to give my business to whichever venue best accommodates me and provides me with what I want at a fair, reasonable, agreeable price. If the cost is too high, I can, will, and have gone elsewhere, and did for most of October. (Over 100 hours worth of my business was lost to HR when I played elsewhere.)

During those numerous sessions at other venues, I saw many former HR "regulars". On occasion, I felt I was in the "same game" as at the HR, only a different location. Many of the same players, also "former" regulars.

The venue changes are Cleaner. Brighter. More comfortable. Less crowded at the limit tables because they are larger.

On the downside, I dislike the longer commute, added cost of time and money, even if minimal, and lack of a "guarantee" (ie; VISA cards coupled with promo EV). An extra gallon of gas per day adds up to real money PDQ, and I would prefer to be able to play at the HR, if all other factors are equal. I definitely earned less money.

The HR poker room needs to be "fixed". It is apparent and obvious that business is dropping off. Or being lost because of other promotions. You used to have the best EV promotions. That appears to no longer be true.

Too bad. The working staff I come into regular and frequent contact with, the Brushes, Supervisors, Dealers, cashiers, and CW's are, for the most part, very competent. Some are superb.

Yet, overall, my observations seem to indicate that "management" does not "get it".

Mr. Mason,

Perhaps you should put in a "Comments" box, upfront, easily accessible, and encourage your customers to give input. ALL of them, not the select few on this forum, or whom answer internet surveys that are naturally biased to begin with. And rather than delegate those comments (when/if read) down your chain of command, read each and every one yourself. Put a lock on the box and keep the key yourself.

The Hard Rock poker room is a business. BUT, without loyal, regular customers, it will not thrive. Unfortunately, it appears to have deteriorated some in October. Fewer games and many "missing" regulars. Will November bring more of the same?

I've learned many things over the years.

A: It is far cheaper to retain a customer than it is to find one to replace them.

B: There are only two rules cor customer service. They are:
1: The customer is always right.
2: IF the customer is not right, see rule #1.

X1,000,000,000

Poker is a business not only for the casino but for most poker players poker is also a business and the key to any business is to keep your regulars happy and keep your costs down. Taken 1$ jackpot rake with no flop should be a crime.

I have just moved to the area and will be grinding a good amount of cash. I assume Isles is the place to play for now? Also is the small gulfstream park decent to play at all? Jw that because it is only a half mile from where I stay...

On a personal basis, coupled with the fact that I am strictly a LIMIT player, the "crime" being committed in the way the rake is taken is "rounding up".

The rake is supposed to be 10%. Yet, it is taken at $6.00, $16.00, $26.00, $36.00, and $46.00. The promotional drop is taken at $10.00 & $20.00.

Unfortunately, the limit players are the principle victim of this generally accepted practice. Yes, there are some venues that take the rake "as due" when there is $10, $20, etc in the pot. Most do not.

The result? A $46.00 pot has $7.00 dropped. IF heads up all the way, my $46.00 pot returns $39.00. My $23.00 put at risk earns a $16.00 return.

At these prices, I've HAD to stop tipping dealers. Occasionally I will tip the "better" dealers, based on the results of their down, and any profit I've earned including promotions.

I've discussed this "over raking". The response was basically "It's too expensive to put coins into play."

As mentioned earlier, some rooms take rake as "due". Others do not. Those small pots are far costlier.

Pinch a penny, pinch a nerve. Just another one of my pet peeves.

But all my pet peeves regarding poker tend to point in the same direction.

Its funny that the "LIMIT" players that sit there and spend a total of $10 in each pot to see if they can help each other win 300 bucks have so much to bark about. When was the last time that you have seen a $45 pot ? Speaking for the 2/5 NL table that I spend most of my time at, its us that deserve most of the jackpot promotions. We spend the most in that place , for 1 or 2 tables that get over a $10 pot to receive anything above $100 is absurd !

Reading your post, I'm sure you're an absolute joy to be with at the table. Somehow, I'm sure everyone at the HR (Including the dealers who you are punishing for management's decisions) are thrilled you don't play there anymore.

Since I have no more insentive to play at the hardrock anymore I decided to start hitting the isles last night for first time in months and I though all the players that I didn't see anymore at the hardrock stopped playing no they didn't stop playing there all at the isles.
First off they don't take 1$ jack pot rake if there's no flop
2nd the action was ridiculous on the 2/5
3rd the food prices and the quality was amazing 5 star
4th the parking was easy and velvet is free
5th its ten handed games
Seems like the isles really takes the extra step for there players im going to head there again tonight.

LoL now that you mentioned it. I was told something similar when I asked a floor supervisor the logic behind changing it to 9 handed.

I was also told that there are no plans in the immediate future to change it back to 10 handed.

I just hope the HR is not trying to copy Palm Beach Kennel Club business model by nickel and diming customers there way to a higher profit. If anything the HR should be copying the Isle business model.

I wonder what the next wonderful change would be charging for bottled water, sodas, coffee, tea?

It just occurred to me did we as regulars get "bait and switched" at first when new management came in all the changes were made to satisfy the customer but now that we made the HR our home they are just selling us a substandard product?

Who's "we" and where is "down here?"

Speak for yourself.

I very much prefer to play nine-handed rather than have 10 people squeezed around the table. In fact, I recently switched poker rooms in Miami specifically because I would rather play nine-handed.

I couldnt agree more.

I like my space .

Nine-handed for me, too. Gives me room to breathe and be comfortable.