Sorry, I forgot this thread isn’t specific to LHE. I would rather pluck my girlfriend’s armpit hair than play in a 6-handed 1/3 game in Seattle area.

Yeah, the action dies off fast once you go from 8 down to 6 handed. The fish don't like playing short handed games. They like big pots and lots of players involved. Maverick has ruined the Seattle poker scene with their rip off entry fees on tournaments and 8 handed tables, which often have one or two spots open during weekdays making them short handed.

lol Seattle tourney scene. Seattle never had a tourney scene outside of tribal poker rooms. Name a room that had decent donkament structure.

And lol to think a Seattle donkament player knows what fish like.

lol, so wrong.


no one in Seattle 1/3 knows GTO let alone play close to it. And how would you know? You clearly play donkaments.

lol…if any of this is true, why would casino care about what’s profitable for nits? Why would anyone care about nits? You’re like that earlier poster who somehow thinks that Maverick is responsible to provide better tourney structures to make Seattle players better at tourney.

IIRC Washington lets the house steal 10% of the player-funded jackpot. The tax impact of winning a jackpot is complex, depending on what you've been reporting and whether you itemize deductions, so let's call that 30% of the remaining 90% of the $3.

By my math you're losing 30c to the house and 81c to tax of each $3 jackpot drop. $6.11 times 30 is $183, which is a good bit less than $240. You may not like having to gamble another $1.89 on a longshot each hand you win, but it's your equity.

Moreover 2+2 readers typically play well below the average VP$IP for a live table, so the sharps aren't paying their "fair share" of that rake. Depending on the structure of the jackpot, they're not getting their fair share back either. (For example, someone who folds 42s to a raise is disadvantaged in most kinds of jackpots.) On balance though tight players pay less than their fair share of the $6.11 pp ph.

This is true if you only play during high hand hours. I play more often during non-high hand hours (Fri. and Sat. nights) than I do during high hand hours.
The rake is one thing, during the weekdays, often times the games have empty seats and are running 6 or 7 handed and the rake is the same 5+3. They will reduce the rake when it gets 5 handed. But usually when its gets down to 5 handed, the game is one player leaving before it breaks up. 8 handed is fine if those 8 seats are filled and people are playing. But usually its 1 or 2 people away from the table for long breaks so the games are usually 6 or 7 handed with the full 5+3 rake.

I don't have a problem with 8 handed if the rake was reduced when it got down to 6 or 7 handed, but it isn't.

Because you are only capable of thinking what is best for you and you only. That's why everything is about why isn't Maverick doing this or that to benefit you, such as lowering rake in tournament and having a structure that will lower the rake in cash game.

What you are failing to understand is that all of this are pretty surface and already obvious to anyone who has spent any serious time in these games. Nobody wants to pay more in rake, especially if that person is a winning player, because rake is directly taking money out of their pocket. Obviously rake doesn't matter much to a losing player unless that losing player has a limited budget - without a limited budget, a losing player could just keep playing even if they are bleeding $2 faster per hour. In Seattle area, most rec players do not have any issue with budgeting for 1/3 games.

At end of the day, it's beating a dead horse. FWIW, I play hundreds more hours than you every year. The amount of rake I pay a year could easily buy a car.

It's just rehashing the same nonsensical complaints of how rake is increasing. It's even dumber now that we are arguing why we should go back to 9-handed and using rake as an argument, just so some nit can irk out that extra $1 or $2. Nits are bad for the game. Nobody should cater anything toward them. Having more nits play in a room can quite literally hurt a room, and if that is true, why on earth would any room want to do anything that might benefit nits?

If you have any rationale why benefiting a nit would benefit a room, and argue that to lower the rake and increase players per table to 9, then I'll be more than happy to somehow help to induce that change.

What kind of car

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It's not only nits who don't like paying more rake and throwing away promo money on a longshot.

Really no one should like it, but any winning player should be smart enough to dislike it.

That's all other things being held equal of course, but I think that is pretty close to being the case, at least in the bigger games.

I don't think many of the bad players are playing in my games because they're looking to hit a jackpot, or playing significantly worse because of its existence.
I've heard all the arguments of why some think jackpots are good for the game, and while they may have a grain of truth, I don't think they measure up to all the money going down the drain (and to taxes, as mentioned above). The more recent "more rake is better" theory is so ridiculous that it doesn't even merit a counter argument.

I am glad you are a deep thinker my illiterate friend, but your spam isn't too useful. Recs can understand what rake is. If rake were $100/hr, very few recs would play. If rake is $30 instead of $10, fewer recs, and regs, will play. It isn't hard to conceive of. Room competition is good and has driven rake to sub-$10 in Texas rooms that have much better and bigger action than these $30 rooms.

Poker is a negative sum game and making it more negative sum doesn't improve things for anyone but room operators. You seem to think that if the game is more negative sum then "top regs" like yourself (lol), that will gladly pay a car worth of rake to lick boots, will actually benefit. Delusional as fk. So stop posting about how rake is a "dead horse." If more rake improves games then how do Texas and Portland run near-0 rake games with much higher hourlies for regs in lower costs of living? The answer isn't shocking: you're absolutely dead wrong.

C'mon now, based on the tone of his posts, this Seattle guy, creative username and all, surely is the life of the poker party and speaks for all players nits or lags alike.

Actually when he typed that he pays a Mazda's worth of rake every year, I thought wow all he does is live at the poker room. I couldn't do that myself, as there's lots of other things to do in the summer other than than slowly rot into the poker seat

Seattle comes off as a dick, but I think that's dues to overexposure to poker rooms in the Seattle area, and he's on the spectrum, but also thinks a lot of himself, which makes sense bc he literally speaks for us, the poker slobs in the greater Washington State area.

Hail HAIL YOU WORMS Seattle lowercase speaks your name.

Seattle Seattle he's our man, he plays poker bc he doesn't have literally to do anything, except for banging hot broads in his rake car and making pizzas at his home pizza oven. His big ass rake house

(Seattle is Elmo musk)

ACT 3
WITNESS SEATTLES MIGHTLY POKER TOWER
RAKE PAID SO MUCH CAR EQUALS
YOU ARE STUPID AND LAME, SEATTLE IS SMART AND TALKS GOODER THAN YOU

ACT 4

I know of what table size the people want
It is 8 not 9 you imbecile
Come play poker with me, play with me, so I can pay rake
And live at Caribbean casino, where I study all and know all pokers
I'm very self aware

How does having higher rake cater towards nits? It actually hurts recs more than nits because the loosest players pay the most rake. And nits are the ones that keeps the games filled. Recs come and go, donÂ’t last for long, they go busto and leave. Without nits, games would break much more often. And the morning/afternoon games would be nonexistent.

And the problem with 8 player tables is they often run with only 6 or 7 playing. You get fewer multiway pots and the pots end up being smaller. Which no one likes. And fighting for small pots isnÂ’t even worth it because of the 5+3 rake. Overall, the games are just worse than they were when they were 9 handed.

I wonder how Fortune survives at 4 and 3?

Food bev liquor sales? Even at low margins just about everybody who goes to Fortune eats at Fortune

Their booze/beers are expensive

What I miss the most tbh but I discovered Chinatown

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Thank you for this beautiful post sir. I'm super curious who Seattle is in real life but yes his posts can have so much genius enlightening detailed truth and yet so much non-self aware blather. He always speaks for all of us poker degens, what a terrible job needing massive brainpower indeed.

I remember his non-stop interruptions about the Hollywood room and his insistence that free food means nothing, but.... listen to him

Glad Fortune is still alive and the only place I'd ever want to play anymore when I come back to Seattle given how awful $8 rake in 6 handed Maverick games are and the **** dealers there. Not sure how Hollywood is doing, i'd imagine everyone there is now moving on to a new non-casino dealing life which is good for them

Which one of you play more than 20 hour a month in a Seattle cardroom? Better yet, which one of you actually live here?

Anyhow, this discussion is a non-starter when it's very clear that people think these are the changes that matter:

*9-handed

*Lower donkament rake

*Free food

I was wrong.

Clearly 230-15-140 and 230-15-135 are different.

https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/law/w.../16-23-153.htm was the last time the amendment was made to revise betting limit, specifically addressing 230-15-135.

Why it matters is because the $400 limit looks to go into effect on 9/25, but not for poker.

Yes, unfortunately that is my reading as well. A bit separate, but still connected topic - @seattle, do you know where is the law that allows tribal casinos to have $500 limit. Is that somewhere in the same law, or is that somewhere different?

Haven't come across it yet.

Actually no, I don't know how degens think.

I don't know why anyone would eat free food in a casino.

I don't know why anyone would want to squeeze into a tight space next to strangers for hours.

I don't know why anyone would play $120 donkaments when they can play cash game whenever they want.

I call BS on this one.

I don't know why anyone wouldn't eat free food in a casino.

People played 9 handed for the past few decades before Maverick ever got here. People didn't complain about tight spaces. The games were better. The games usually played 7 or 8 handed anyway because there was almost always 1 or 2 players taking long breaks. That's a better game than the 6 or 7 handed now with a higher rake. And if you happen to play during the best times (Fri. and Sat. nights), well that $3 jackpot isn't paid out to you and it goes to subsidizing high hands for the nits that you look down on, who populate the weekday morning and afternoon games.

The way Maverick runs their poker rooms, they LOVE to have 3 games going that are 6,6,7 handed with no list. That way, instead of collecting rake from 2 full tables of 9 players, they collect the same rake from 3 non-full tables. 33% more profit for Eric Persson, to feed his high stakes poker addiction, as the dealers are basically free labor for the cardroom, as they get a very low wage and make all their money from tips. Straight from the players pockets into Persson's big stack in televised poker games.

Here is why people want free food: 1) save money. 2) save time.

As for donkaments, they provided a different type of game and were fun to play when it was possible to make a long term profit when the fees were 10% of the buyin. With 30% entry fees, they are no longer profitable, making them less fun to play. What's the point in playing a tournament when the prize pool is puny after the casino takes their big cut?

To be fair, Washington has the highest minimum wage in the country, and they don't have a lower minimum for tipped employees like most states do. Surely the additional rake still more than covers it though.

Like I said, I don't know how degens think. You guys have fun with this topic.

The man has shown that he doesn't have the ability to imagine how other people think. It's the autistic, or jerk thing. It's also called empathy.

For each of his points, I was able to come up with answers in about 30 seconds. Seattle is incapable of thinking about the answer to the question, why do people enjoy hanging out in crowds to gamble.

Has he ever heard of Las Vegas? The concept of a packed gambling room?

So it's full blown autist, trolling, or just very old and his brain doesn't work anymore.

Anyhow, I'd recommend not feeding him.

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