So how does the local donk get better at MTT tournaments if all you want them to run is cash?

Seriously? Why would I care if anyone gets better at MTTs?

And more importantly, why would a casino owner care about that?

I am not even sure why they run morning tourney anymore. Very rarely does any of those players cross over. Perhaps it's because it's still profitable at $15 rake per player.

Funny Maverick thought morning tourneys would convert players to cash game that they even ran daily free rolls with $1,000 guarantee. Players were lining up before the casino even opened and there were a few homeless guys in the mix, lol.

The same players showed up every single day. Exactly zero of them stayed for cash game.

My guess is bc the place is open 24h and like you said $15 is better than 0.0

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It's sort of received wisdom that tournaments are an ok loss leader or break-even leader to draw folks in for more lucrative cash games.

If that's not true mornings at Fortune it makes me curious:

• Was conventional wisdom always wrong?
• Had something changed over time to bifurcate cash and tourney player pools?
• Or is something specific to Fortune, to mornings, to Seattle or the PNW, causing a departure from CW?

No idea but it's got me wondering which if any.

I am speculating that the idea of tourney leads to cash games stemmed from early days of poker rooms, perhaps as early as mid 2000's when the Moneymaker boom started. Back then, it's a much easier bridge because most cash games were 3/6 limit. It makes sense for players to play tourney, then drop another $100 playing 3/6 for couple of hours.

Now it's very different with spread limit games being as popular as they are. An unskilled player could lose $200 playing 1/3 and barely played a few hands. That's a big departure from the 3/6 limit days.

Most morning donkament tourney players have tried cash, and most of them quickly realized that they're better off sticking with tourneys. Enough of them doing the same thing, it's basically a kiddy pool with bunch of kids splashing water at each other. Everyone have fun, no one gets hurt. That's kind of what donkaments are.

In other words, Seattle tournament poker is closer to bar poker scene nowadays than actual MTTs at Vegas, or those that you see on TV. Basically it's low cost, some money exchanged, and people have fun.

None of the top cash game players in Seattle would bother with tourneys and that in turn create a much softer field.

It's funny that when it's closer to WSOP, more cash game players would jump into tourneys thinking they can prep for the WSOP trip. But it's a complete night and day, because there are actually good tourney players in WSOP, whereas all the tourney players in Seattle are in the bottom tier as far as poker ability. Other than getting used to the idea of clock and blinds moving up, playing tourney in Seattle could actually make you less prepared for a tourney in WSOP.

In the "old" days, it was very common for players to jump into cash games after busting a tournament. Nowadays, a huge percentage of the poker world are tournament players who just never play cash games, ever. Not sure why that is, but it is definitely a change from prior to the poker boom.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Isn’t it very obvious that cash and tourney are two completely different type of game now? We can see these subtle differences in video games running the same engine, but somehow we can’t recognize how the strategy for cash game is so much different than tourneys now.

The homeless people thing is hilarious.

Going up to $400. Maverick sent out a notice last night after gaming commission meeting.

They hadn’t uploaded the meeting to YouTube yet.

I hope this isnt against the rules. and i hope its not considered doxxing. as it is public information.

but for everyones information,

Sarah Lawson voted NO on even increasing the bet limit at all. She is an enrolled member of the Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska, and has direct conflict in this area. as her job is entails "advising companies doing business in Indian Country and works with tribes and tribal members on estate planning and probate matters."

and Bud Sizemore disagreed on increasing to $500, for i have no idea why. somewhat reluctantly was fine with increasing it to $400.

btw how are the gambling commissioners appointed?

Both of those are listed on the website: https://wsgc.wa.gov/about-us/commissioners/ and you can watch them vote on YouTube.

Sizemore was the one that proposed $400 after voting down $500. I forgot why, but the guy is tilting to watch. There needs to be a time clock on him every time he takes the mic, because he could literally take up an entire meeting to say 3 things while slowly formulate his thoughts.

I think we are about 6 weeks from the new rule taking effect. The debit card final action took place on May 11th meeting, and they posted CR103 11 days after with effective date on June 18th.

So we can probably expect CR103 posted around August 1st with effective date around end of August?

@seattle But this is still only for house-banked card games, right? It seems so from the commission packet cover for July meeting, at least yo me. So, if I understand correctly for poker we will need to wait? Or is your understanding that both will increase at the same time?

My understanding is that they’re treated the same. I don’t recall any reference of past rule changes that specifically include or exclude poker.

Meeting is posted on YouTube for those interested. The vote was passed 3-2 with Lawson and Ibsen voting against it.

im going to play at Aces Poker in August.

its my first time playing at a live casino.

in order to not waste time and/or possibly misunderstand the floor staff, i was wondering if someone can give me Aces Poker room specifics.

1. Do they do player cards?

2. how does their high hand work? (playing NLHE only. MAYBE PLO in the future?)

3. how do they do table changes/seat changes? (just tell the dealer?)

4. whats their rule on sitting out?

5. how do i get racks to cash out? is it standard to go to the cage?

6. how do their waitlist work? are they on an App?

7. can I call in to ask to be on a waitlist? or do i have to do it in person all the time and just wait till spot opens?

8. how are their player pool?

9. obviously late evenings friday and saturday would be best to play. but taking out those times, what other times/days of the week are usually good at Aces Poker? (I have odd work schedules)

thank you for any information guys

Dude, just go and play. Why make it so complicated?

10. Sit at a table, get felted for your $300 stack first hand, go home. No refunds

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FWIW, casinos already have enough "main characters," we really don't need another.

The game is meant to be social, fun, and enjoyable for everyone. Even most winners of these games understand that and do their part to keep the game entertaining for everyone. It's not WSOP feature table where everyone sit there quietly and calculate their every move.

If you're worried about looking like a fool playing for the first time. There isn't anything to worry. Have a good attitude and nobody would give you hard time.

But if you sit down, tank forever, ask bunch of questions, give no action, and just nut peddle...then ya, you probably won't enjoy playing live for long. There are 7 other players at the table and no one else would enjoy playing a player like that.

at the risk of giving a serious answer, you can get a maverick card and then the aces app will be useful.

the high hand /monte carlos are designated quads. follow @acespokerwa for the latest.

I got social anxiety. so i would prefer to know what im doing before i go. or have as little questions as possible.

> ask bunch of questions, then ya, you probably won't enjoy playing live for long. There are 7 other players at the table and no one else would enjoy playing a player like that.

that doesnt help me just "go and play" at all lol. its why im preferring to get the answers to my questions before actually going to play.

If you have social anxiety, poker room might be the worst place to be, especially on a weekend night.

Go on a Monday morning or Tuesday morning when it’s slow. Ask all those questions in person and they wouldn’t mind answering them.

Club Hollywood is in your neck of the woods. It is also a very slow room, so you won’t have to deal with a lot of other people.

It’ll be a good room for you to get your feet wet.

And dude, you should just try it out. It may not even be your thing, but at least then you’ll know.