I hear that Monroe has a 5 cigarette-10 cigarette PLO game that's absolutely fantastic action. Hard to get a seat in it though.

This account certainly fits the wiki definition of tilt:

Tilt is a poker term for a state of mental or emotional confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming over-aggressive.

Is there a regular PLO game that runs everyday in Seattle?

If by everyday you mean Thrs-Fri-Sat, then yes there is. Tulalip.

**** - high stakes! I'll probably open up a 1-2 cig Big O table, with optional blunt straddle.

Srsly tho - that was inspired - you're blowing my cover at work, I'm over here LOLing in my open work area.

Anyone going to Tulalip for the Thursday night tournament? Thinking about heading up there

Just called out some collusion at Lils.

Typical. This place is a *****hole.

More details on collusion? I'd like to know what to watch out for.

+1

Me too. As I mentioned upthread, word on the street (OK, at the Hideaway) is that the Lil's 20/40 is rife with collusion hence a really really tough game to beat. I'm starting to play it more, and often I find it pretty soft for midstakes.

I may just be bad at observing this, but I've never seen anything that looked like effective collusion. I've seen people who know each other get into raising wars. However, it seems like this often happens preflop; often happens heads up; they never get caught with implausible hands; etc. Aggressive play creates a lot of "implicit collusion."

All that to say, I believe zac that collusion happened, but I'd like to get better at identifying it versus the wanton aggression that people think is collusion.

Sorry for the delay on a response. I couldn't find the podcast were Limon discusses collusion and cheating. I know best handing and squeezing might be hard to understand but I will try and make this as easy as possible.

First lets start with what Collusion is:

Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage.

We can all agree that Lil's has posted rules that state collusion is against the rules.

Last night while waiting for a 20/40 seat, (both games were nothing special) and when they got good there wasn't a seat, I was playing in the 2nd 8/16 game. Also they ended up having 4 8/16 games and 2 of them were like 06 parkers if anyone can remember that. lol

I am in seat 8, after some shuffling and people swapping seats we have our villains in seat 1 and 2.

So before I get to specifics I will give some generalizations and you can decide whats going on.

If seat 1 enters a pot seat 2 always calls/raises. If either player sees the river, the other player sees the river 100% of the time. When it gets heads up the best hand instantly turns up his hand and the losing hand gets quickly pitched into the much regardless of street.

Some specifics. Seat 1 was looking at his cards in a funny way and every time seat 2 was staring at his hand while he looked. I can't be 100% because he could have been waiting for his turn but I am pretty sure he could see his cards. When ever seat 1 checked, seat 2 bet and there were <3 callers seat 1 always raised. 100% of the time. <Classic squeeze.

So every time you would play a hand that they were in, you were playing against 2 hands.

Here is the hand when I said something.

Seat 1 in BB
Seat 2 UTG
Seat 5
Seat 7 Button
Seat 8 SB
Seat 9 out

Pre
Seat 2 raises
Seat 5 calls
Seat 7 calls
Seat 8 folds
Seat 1 calls

Flop
Seat 1 bet/ 2!
Seat 2 raises/ 3!
Seat 5 calls/ folds
Seat 7 calls/ calls

Turn
Seat 1 checks/2!/calls
Seat 2 bets/3!
Seat 7 calls/folds

Before river seat 2 has turned over second pair and seat 1 has turbo slid his cards into the muck.
River
Seat 2 wins.

"I say, so we can conclude you will not play against each other if you get heads up?"

First thing he says, "we are not colluding, we are just friends!"

So I just drop it.

About 2 hands later the same type of squeeze happens and I ask to see all hands but oh wait seat 1's cards all already in the muck. hmm

So I speak up again and seat 1 instantly racks up and seat 2 5 min later cashes out.

So when you played heads up against them, you would get check raised 3 bet if one of them was ahead and if they were behind you would have to play against 2 hands without the ability to get more than 1 bet out of them. You were always playing against the best hand with a betting disadvantage.

One might say, oh they are just regs in a raising war... LOL no, they aren't.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, I've not seen anything like that although it doesn't surprise me.

It seems like skilled colluders would want to hide what they're up to, not flip up hands and call attention to themselves. I am curious if they see how super exploitable it is in multiway pots though. You can play all your good top pair or better passively by just calling along. Especially play IO hands like small pairs that can flop huge and take lots of money from them.

Would they stop this if you were in a multiway pot calling along? But I'm confused: "So when you played heads up against them..." In other words, three-handed? I take that to mean three-handed, they stopped reraising because they knew you probably had something.

(I tend to discount the "playing against the better of the two hands" effect because hands that want to continue on are usually self-selected. Of course it could matter if e.g. you had a flush draw, one had a set, the other had an overpair--IOW, a second-best hand that would pay off if it didn't know it was behind. I'm not sure if that makes up for the EV they're giving up in multiway pots when someone else has the best hand, though.)

I agree it's not in the long term interest of the game even if it with some adjustment it could probably make you money. I think in your shoes I'd go straight to the floor after the second hand, not try to reason with them. Glad you got one to leave. Do you think that solved the problem for the moment? Do you think exposing him will have a longer term effect?

Does this happen more in the 8 than in the 20?

MOVING TO SEATTLE

Hi there, I am moving to capitol hill. I am looking for places to play cards after work (I work from home). Living in Portland now, and play PLO8 and PL BIG O8 several times a week. I am sad to be leaving this kind of action.

Now, please cheer me up and let me know where I can play PLO games in and around Seattle.

I am also interested in any O8 games or STUD games in the area. I don't mind playing HOLD EM, but it gets old pretty fast.

I saw that there is an OE game at muckleshoot every Friday 25/50....that's too high of a limit for me being new to the area.

Please let me know. I want to make sure I have games to play in....reluctant to be driving an hour to MUCKLESHOOT or TULALIP in traffic on weeknights.

Thanks!

This is why 2+2 needs a wiki. (Later I'll go see if this info is on poker.wikia.com ). Games offered doesn't change that often, so a wiki is more effective than a message board thread for tracking this.

jondeath, thank you for your question and welcome to the forums! Please navigate to the past several pages of the thread. Search for "15/30", "LO8", and "stud" and see what you find. I suggest setting your view of the forum to 100 posts at a time (I can help with this). If you go back one page, you will find information on multiple LO8 games and probably stud.

Thanks AKQJ10,

I have been searching the forums...the information is too spread out. I have looked on Poker Atlas, but the information on that site is never correct.

Can a local mixed game player please provide me with a short list of where I can find "non hold 'em) poker games each day of the week in and around the seattle area?

I'm sure this summary would help everyone.

JD

Muck is a half hour from Capitol Hill, assuming you're not trying to go at 5pm.

Does anyone know if the $500 and $750 Muck tournaments have a cap? If so, what is it? Also, what are the odds of it actually reaching that number?

OK, here's my attempt at something constructive. Edit away!
http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/Seattle

Relevant posts ITT: #2560, #2567, #2521

I added some info for the Palace in Lakewood...

I don't think I dicked up the page too much.

FB

Zac, thanks for taking the time to write this up. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people working together in this fashion at Lil's. Without violating forum rules about naming players, can you give some hints? They weren't two white guys were they? (You can PM me if you want too.)

Also, Later at Lil's...
Some dude got jumped and beat down by three other guys in the Lil's parking lot this morning around 2:00 a.m. Got bloodied up quite a bit. Of course after a cursory wipe down in the restroom he wanted to sit down and play some more poker! Other players were understandably reluctant to play with the still-blood-dripping victim. Not sure what ended up happening since I left around that time.

Here is a hint. If two guys of any ethnicity sit together, say "we are friends", occasionally speak in a different language to each other, and their play is a little suspect it is time to raise a eye brow and get out of the game.

Of course it was 2 asian guys. lol

People have been playing like this in limit hold em games forever and this will probably never stop because people just say, "oh they are in a raising war, or they are just playing each other that way because they are friends." Just protect yourself by understanding when to ask to see all cards and when to speak up or simply leave the game.

Got some back story on the guy that got jumped: Apparently he was talking **** to some dudes at the Iron Horse in Auburn then headed to Lil's, they followed him and kicked his ass. Some people said he deserved it....

No cap listed on the info sheet I picked up at Muckleshoot....


Last years numbers....

500$ NLHE = 245 runners 35k first

750$ NLHE = 201 runners 42k first

ive seen guys raise reraise alot. just friends that gamble and having fun doing it. sometimes they slow down after everyone is out or near the end.
basically you are playing higher satkes and getting two to one on your money every hand.

unless they are selective and dont play hands that dominate each other then you are stealing. usually the only ones that complain are strangers or those that want the game to be tighter and smaller.

Very cool. I touched it up a little with game start times; this can be crucial info as I've seen the 15/30 fire up at Muck and not a single seat open for hours.

This is clearly not what happened in my specific situation.