And that is why we did not talk to much about it. I said the Hideaway was a dump and the area sucks. But he did say his friends bought it.

Having Omaha appreciation days.
May 20-22, $250 every 30 minutes noon to 8pm.

Community question:

Now that non-tribal are running bigger games, much bigger than previous 3/6 and 4/8 limit games, are these rooms "prepared?"

Is there adequate security to protect the casino and, more importantly, the players from potential threats?

All 3 tribals have a large staff of security and all of their poker rooms are only accessible through casino floor where you would have to at least one layer of security in place.

Fortune is one doorway from entry and so is Dragon and Caribbean. Caribbean at least has one security guard in front, though I am not very confident with the look of the guard, but nevertheless, at least it has one guard.

Dragon and Fortune have no one...

Should there be concerns?

I can't comment on Fortune.

Regarding Dragon: I just had this conversation with someone about dragon. There are constant fights there and the staff usually just tells folks to drop it, never seen anyone kicked out. It's funky the way they handle chips - for example, I've had multiple times where I could not color up to green because they were out of them (indicates they're not prepared to run larger games), etc.

While I appreciate the PLO dragon runs, now that Tulalip has dropped rake on their 2-2 PLO game I hope some folks will migrate back there who are looking for lower stakes PLO. I'm not entirely comfortable at dragon, some of their wait staff is exceptionally rude (not all, just a couple) and the parking situation doesn't lend itself to carrying thousands on you when you have to walk down 99 to get to an unmanned lot if their primary lot is full. Combined that with the fact you can angle, only show 2 of 4 at PLO unless a player requests 4, string betting is permitted, there is some things that make this room very sloppy. Dealers can only communicate by yelling, players are constantly on move lists, players constantly influencing decisions, it's absolutely chaos when it's busy. It's way too packed. Also, I always see folks coming through and picking up cigarette butts outfront to smoke. I'm not concerned about these people trying to steal from me, but I don't like the fact that it crosses my mind from a security perspective.

Dragon has done some good things - their app, the comps on food, the high hands for those who want those, most floor and dealers are very cool as well. Most of their staff is a real pleasure to work with. I look forward to them addressing other items though.

Question is: Will I get mugged at Fortune Poker

Answer: Highly unlikely. The parking lot is monitored, well lit, there are always patrons out there, and access is tight. Would be difficult to mug someone and cleanly exit the lot without anybody noticing. On foot, you'd have to clear the ditch going south, and the northern side is blocked by a building.

There's a review on pokeratlas saying that this person wouldn't let their wife go to the Muck alone because of it's sketchyness. I think this is silly as the place is filled with soft targets (like the elderly) and they have no such fear.

Casino parking lots are pretty safe in general imo. And you can always ask for an escort to your car.

Agreed that the red dragon satellite parking is much sketchier.



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In other words, players are unlikely to be mugged because it's hard not to be noticed? If that's how you gauge safety, and I suppose each to his own.

Nevertheless, it still doesn't make me feel any safer carrying enough cash to comfortably sit in a PLO game.

What's stopping anyone from robbing the casino itself?

Just be smart and discreet, keep your eyes open and you'll probably be okay.

And it's not like the amount of money has changed that much. At least at Fortune, and before that at Diamond Lil's, the 20/40 players were routinely walking in and out with thousands. I was a nit in the games and would bring $2k. That's only 4 racks of red. If I won I'd leave with more, sometimes much more. I saw many players over time with solid half-inch thick stacks of hundos. Never heard of anyone getting robbed.

As far as the casino getting stuck up, I suppose it's possible. I guess I'd say to stay aware of the nearest exits... I'd also guess that they probably have more going on security-wise than is obvious to the casual observer.

Diamond Lil had always been known as a sketchy place and had a reputation for it, so it was not like anyone walking in there weren't exactly prepared.

Plus Fortune is always right there to squash any issue the moment it arises, probably better than any establishment I know. I am actually not too concern of Fortune.

Dragon on the other hand is not exactly secured. It doesn't have any security and late at night when it is slower, there is even less staff. With 3 PLO tables going and a live tracking app of how many players are in the room, it is pretty easy to know exactly when players are coming and leaving, and when it is most vulnerable.

I am probably just overreacting, but seriously though, how hard is it to take advantage of Dragon during certain period of the week?

What did Tulalip drop the rake to? They have every advantage over red dragon, it’s kinda baffling to me the dragon is drawing so many people from Tulalip. The dragon is in a sketchy area with almost no security. Tulalip has a ton of security and a way nicer atmosphere. The dragon has a crap layout too with a very annoying draft whenever the door opens. Seems to me the only draw is it’s less far to drive and a smaller game so the casual players lose less. Also it seems like they have better promos and pay out something 7x a week (monte Carlo or high hand) Can anyone who plays at dragon please explain I’m curious.

A non-intimidating social environment for one, distance for another, and floors aren’t anti-social.

$3 or $4 (can't recall) instead of time on 2-2, 5-5 is still $8/30m. The player base drove them away, stopped running 5-5 and tried to force 5/10/25. Trained the floor in that now too. Very difficult to get their smaller PLO games running anymore.

Parker's back parking lot was worthy of a gang-banger shootout movie-set. The Red Dragon is a on-the-cheap dive. Security and cheating should be a concern when playing there. The Tulalip has every advantage in the north. The difference between the two is poker is the raison d'être at the Red Dragon while their "give a ****" button is broken at Tulalip poker.

A north-end Fortune would dominate.

Hideaway reopening(again lol) this Friday. Going to try and get a 10-20 mix game going on Saturdays but probably not til after the series.

Since there's so much discussion here's my greater Seattle area poker room Power Rankings.
1) Fortune
2) Carribean
3) Dragon
4) Muck
5) Tulalip
6) Snoq

We'll see where the new Hide falls.

There are reasons why Hideaway failed so many times and now that Dragon is around, it would have to either outmuscle it through promotion or cater toward smaller segments of the crowd such as Pan or Big O.

Seems to me the odds are stacked against it.

And I can't believe Tulalip is cycling back its stupid hold for 1 hour promotion. It will drive in players for the first few weeks when players don't understand why it's such a bad promotion, then the crowd goes away.

What exactly is the promo and why is it bad?

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Running 60 minute clock for $1000. It resets every time someone beats it.

People think it’s the same as hourly HH that Fortune offers, then they see that no one gets paid for 2-3 hours especially when people aren’t hitting big enough hands.

That sounds awful.

I already hate when someone hits a royal at Fortune with 9 minutes left and Im drawing dead, lol.

Redbirds hideaway

It could conceivably be in the interest of both the Dragon and the new Hideaway to collude to get niche games going at the H. AFAICT the niche games aren't going that well at RD (has $6/12 big O gotten stable? Never mind they don't have the right chips for it) but they're crushing with the constancy of what they offer.

The incentive for the RD would be to get the niche players not cluttering their room trying to start weak games. Not sure that's much of an incentive but I get the sense they'd just as soon not bother with these games.

As an aside I have my doubts that PLO will be sustainable for more than a few months because the good players in PLO crush the bad ones and the bad ones don't think about how big a $1-3 game really is. I'd be happy to be wrong, because I like that game.

Not really. It doesn't hurt RD one bit to have extra traffic of players hoping to start niche game.

And I am not sure whether PLO is sustainable has anything to do with current topic.

You're probably right but I doubt it helps them either. From playing in a bunch of those niche games my observation is those players will probably show up a week or two to mill around and see if their game gets going and if it doesn't, go home and stop coming back. I could be completely wrong though. For all I know maybe the Thursday Big O is strong there now.

A better way for me to have stated it would have been, I doubt that they care much if the Hideaway builds a niche with those players, although they'd probably want to keep the ones like me who'll play one of their games as a reluctant second choice.

Thread title is Seattle. I meant the dynamics at a smallish cardroom in Mountlake Terrace; obviously PLO is sustainable in places where a lot of gamblers have an unending supply of money to dump in the game (like Tulalip or the Aria or the Commerce or wherever).

You are a perculiar guy.

Clearly we were talking about niche games and out of nowhere you started talking about sustainiabilty of PLO.

The thread is about Seattle, he prefaced it with "as an aside," and I'd not sure how pondering whether smaller PLO games (which are basically a niche game) are sustainable longterm is a bizarre non-sequitur in a conversation largely about a room that has smaller PLO games.