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Old 06-13-2010, 03:07 PM   #51
rammynutzhard
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by bluezam View Post
Thanks for the detailed update. I haven't been over there yet. It sounds like it will be in a decent area, except for maybe the location of the cage.
Don't know how accurate this info is, but I have heard rumors that chip runners will be used at the Sands. This info was heard from a prospective dealer that heard it from someone that works at Sands. I cannot confirm this info, but maybe Dave can.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:20 PM   #52
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

any Omaha?
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #53
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Basically, as Davey said the poker area is located in the middle of the casino all the way on the left hand side (if entering from the front). It's situated right in front of the food court,

No sign of walls or a desk yet.

I actually prefer it not being a "room".
Davey - Will the poker area be non-smoking? Will it have walls to keep out the smoke from the surrounding areas of the casino?

Although it's an hour closer to me than AC I've never been to Sands. I'm hoping that the new room works out great and I can make it my first choice place to play.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:05 PM   #54
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

Opening in 26 day and no clue what the rake will be.......rrrrriiiiiggght.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:32 PM   #55
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by StackerBA View Post
2/4 on average doesn't generate as much rake as a no limit game. 3/6 is arguable.
If your rake structure for a 2/4 Limit game is 10%, max $4, there is nowhere existing in the world where you will not average $3.50 a hand in rake. Given how terribly people play it is virtually impossible that a ton of pots don't reach $40, assuming tables are full or near full.

As far as the actual room, based on convos with people on this site and from the "underground" room scene in NY and North NJ, there are going to be an an assload of 2p2'ers and 2p2 types at this room.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:33 PM   #56
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

I don't see why that's so unbelievable. I'm sure they can make table signs for all the tables in < 30 minutes, so they can decide what the final rakes will be the day before it opens and still have it ready.
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:23 PM   #57
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Davey - Will the poker area be non-smoking? Will it have walls to keep out the smoke from the surrounding areas of the casino?

Although it's an hour closer to me than AC I've never been to Sands. I'm hoping that the new room works out great and I can make it my first choice place to play.
Cockpit....I'm not positive, but I think they section its in is already a designated non-smoking area. I'll check for you sometime this week.

As for walls, because of the architecture (high ceilings, open space) it would be impossible for them to make an enclosed room. If they have walls at all, their only option would be like a 4-ft half wall or something (think showboat ac).
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:37 PM   #58
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
If your rake structure for a 2/4 Limit game is 10%, max $4, there is nowhere existing in the world where you will not average $3.50 a hand in rake. Given how terribly people play it is virtually impossible that a ton of pots don't reach $40, assuming tables are full or near full.
True, 2/4 LHE on average will generate more rake PER HAND, but there are a few factors which make NL a better game for the house.

1.) There are going to be a lot more hands per down in NL with a wide variety of rakes. Some hands will have no rake with someone taking it down pre-flop. Some hands will have 1-3 dollars rake, and then quite a few $4 raked hands that can be won at the flop as well.

2.) Because of the way 2/4LHE is played, you almost always have 5+ players seeing every flop, calling every raise pre-flop, taking FOREVER to make decisions on a $2 or $4 bet, then pretty much every single hand is going to go all the way to the river. More betting rounds = more time = less hands per down..

Based on my experience as a dealer, I would normally get 15-20 hands per down in NL (15 with slow-acting people, 20 with people "on the ball.") In LHE, I would almost always get 11 or 12 hands per down because each hand would take so damn long.. It seemed like every table would have that one person that would be like the following....

Me: "$2 more to you sir.."
Player: "It was raised?"
Me: "Yes sir, it is $2 more to call."
Player: "Who raised?"
Me: <pointing at the $4 bet
Player: "Can I re-raise?"
Me: "Yes, to $6"
Player: "Can't I make it $8?"
Me: "No sir, you can only raise in increments of $2 pre-flop and after the flop. On the turn and river you can raise in $4 increments."
Player: "So on the turn I can raise $4 more?"
Me: "If you are facing a bet, then yes, you can raise $4 more."
Player: "I raise to $8"
Me: *sigh*

Every scenario is different, but you get the point...

Last edited by rammynutzhard; 06-13-2010 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:51 PM   #59
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Me: "$2 more to you sir.."
Player: "It was raised?"
Me: "Yes sir, it is $2 more to call."
Player: "Who raised?"
Me: <pointing at the $4 bet
Player: "Can I re-raise?"
Me: "Yes, to $6"
Player: "Can't I make it $8?"
Me: "No sir, you can only raise in increments of $2 pre-flop and after the flop. On the turn and river you can raise in $4 increments."
Player: "So on the turn I can raise $4 more?"
Me: "If you are facing a bet, then yes, you can raise $4 more."
Player: "I raise to $8"
Me: *sigh*

Every scenario is different, but you get the point...
I have played a ton of 2/4 LHE in my life. That is a pretty accurate transcript of the action at 2/4 LHE, except for omitting the inevitable player that wants to move all in.
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:16 PM   #60
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

Very good points
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:03 PM   #61
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

ive always seen more hands per down on a limit table (even 2/4) (except for 4 am drunkenness), than a 1/2 nl table. in NL some decisions take time, in limit no one takes 5 min to make a decision. In tournaments NL is much faster, as it is a tighter game in a tournament.
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:04 PM   #62
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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ive always seen more hands per down on a limit table (even 2/4) (except for 4 am drunkenness), than a 1/2 nl table. in NL some decisions take time, in limit no one takes 5 min to make a decision. In tournaments NL is much faster, as it is a tighter game in a tournament.
Those 2/4 tables must have been loaded with regs then, because most of the time you're gonna have a lot of inexperienced players that take quite a bit of time.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:20 AM   #63
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by rammynutzhard View Post
Don't know how accurate this info is, but I have heard rumors that chip runners will be used at the Sands. This info was heard from a prospective dealer that heard it from someone that works at Sands. I cannot confirm this info, but maybe Dave can.
Working on this. I expect a runner will be available most of the time.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:21 AM   #64
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by cockpit View Post
Davey - Will the poker area be non-smoking? Will it have walls to keep out the smoke from the surrounding areas of the casino?

Although it's an hour closer to me than AC I've never been to Sands. I'm hoping that the new room works out great and I can make it my first choice place to play.
No-Smoking in the poker room or the pits next to the poker room. No problems there.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:23 AM   #65
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

Stopped by the Sands today to check things out. there is no "poker room". however, there is a section in the middle of the gaming floor that has 12 poker tables in it. im sure they will enclose the area somewhat, but it does not have the feeling of a poker room. its going to be very loud. unless they get rid of a ton of slot machines, there is no immediate area to expand beyond the 12 tables there now. it doesnt seem like poker is a priority for the sands at all. hopefully im way off base, but i was very disappointed with what i saw.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:53 AM   #66
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by tomjoad50 View Post
Stopped by the Sands today to check things out. there is no "poker room". however, there is a section in the middle of the gaming floor that has 12 poker tables in it. im sure they will enclose the area somewhat, but it does not have the feeling of a poker room. its going to be very loud. unless they get rid of a ton of slot machines, there is no immediate area to expand beyond the 12 tables there now. it doesnt seem like poker is a priority for the sands at all. hopefully im way off base, but i was very disappointed with what i saw.
You're not off-base. That's it.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:44 PM   #67
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

Will there be any live poker when the dry run is held on July 16th?
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:04 PM   #68
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Will there be any live poker when the dry run is held on July 16th?
I would assume so since the dry run is for the PGCB to audit and approve all the games.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:15 PM   #69
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Will there be any live poker when the dry run is held on July 16th?
Will likely be a 2-4 limit hold em, only that day just for a simple display.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:58 PM   #70
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Re: BETHLEHEM SANDS POKER ROOM Q&A

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Originally Posted by daveygravy View Post
The Sands will definitely offer higher games than 2-5 NL. I anticipate that we should have a nice 5-5 or 5-10 NL game going pretty regularly based on the conversations I have had with the players in North Jersey.

With only 12 tables don't on it.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:45 PM   #71
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Re: BETHLEHEM SANDS POKER ROOM Q&A

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With only 12 tables don't on it.
Being the Sands is the closest casino to the NYC/Newark area, I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. There's quite a few big underground games around there.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #72
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

My Lord, you people find everything to complain about... Let them get started... if the 12 tables are full at all times with big lists I'm sure they'll expand. I also like it being on the floor, feels like more action.

Be happy that there are new casinos, lay off the guy about rake and smoking and stupid sh.

Go the casino and have fun, if you don't like it, don't go back, but leave this guy alone with stupid things.

You're drawing him away from the important questions like the closest asian massage parlor
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:13 PM   #73
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

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Originally Posted by phazeONE View Post
My Lord, you people find everything to complain about... Let them get started... if the 12 tables are full at all times with big lists I'm sure they'll expand. I also like it being on the floor, feels like more action.

Be happy that there are new casinos, lay off the guy about rake and smoking and stupid sh.

Go the casino and have fun, if you don't like it, don't go back, but leave this guy alone with stupid things.

You're drawing him away from the important questions like the closest asian massage parlor
Asking if it's a no smoking room is a complaint. Got it.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by phazeONE View Post
My Lord, you people find everything to complain about... Let them get started... if the 12 tables are full at all times with big lists I'm sure they'll expand. I also like it being on the floor, feels like more action.

Be happy that there are new casinos, lay off the guy about rake and smoking and stupid sh.

Go the casino and have fun, if you don't like it, don't go back, but leave this guy alone with stupid things.

You're drawing him away from the important questions like the closest asian massage parlor
Wanting to know what the rake is is stupid? ??
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:07 PM   #75
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Re: Bethlehem Sands Poker Room Q&A

Took a walk down on Thursday, looks like they have all the tables setup (12 total). I was able to snap one decent pic. Basically, there are two identical sections. The pic below shows the section on the right and there is a small aisle on the left of the pics. I'm assuming thats where the desk will be.



Banks of slot machines begin behind me (about 6 feet from where I'm standing)
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