Wow, spirited debate, guys!

Dionysus, wondering if there was an update on this (if not, no worries).

Table limitations are due to local statute, each municipality decides how many tables are allowed. California Indian gaming regulations suspended new card club licenses. Local Covid ordinances limit current capacity to 8 players per table down from 10 for tournaments and 9 for cash games. There is this thing called the great recession that probably has limited the number of dealers coming back to deal. All suck from a poker players perspective. You can blame the lack of tournaments on government regulation.

Doesn't the state also have table licenses, kinda like liquor licenses?

In San Jose they passed a ballot measure on allowing the cardrooms to have more tables in exchange for higher taxes, but the state stepped in and said no, you can't have that many tables. didn't stop the city from increasing the tax lol

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/04/...lates-the-law/

Wasn’t going to reply, but decided to, so potential readers aren’t misled . . . Can’t tell if you’re being deliberately misleading . . . That’s why I was rude before - thought you were deliberately misleading people, but perhaps it is an honest mistake on your part.

“ You can blame the lack of tournaments on government regulation.”

This is so blatantly incorrect that it is unreal. Why were tournaments ran before Covid? Unless you’re saying that Covid policies, specifically, have (and potentially are currently) limiting the number of tables allowed to be in play - however, based on your post, local Covid ordinances limit the capacity of players per table (no mention of any limitations of total number of tables in play). (As a side note - unrelated to anything you have said - does Covid transmit across tournament cards and tables, but not cash games cards and tables? That is - one of the reasons - all this has seemed so ridiculous to me!)

“ Table limitations are due to local statute, each municipality decides how many tables are allowed.”

No . . Doesn’t seem to be so . . . Seems to be a state thing . . . Based on what happened to Bay 101 and Matrix . . . As JohnRusty alluded to and mentioned in post a few pages back . . . The state screwed them over, not letting them expand their number of tables (and then the city screwed them over again, by increasing the tax on them anyways . .)

Side note to Bay 101 and Casino Matrix: I wouldn’t pay that extra tax increase to San Jose if I were you. They have no right to force that increase on you. Not until you get the extra tables that (I think) you deserve. (Of course, increasing the number of tables is a separate thing/issue and may be tough legally, but of course, I’m no expert on that.) But, with regards to the tax - morally, logically, and common-sense wise, as well as from a legal perspective, (from my view) it doesn’t seem they can (or should) enforce that tax increase on you (or, at least, that’s certainly not fair).

(In other words, I stand with Bay 101 and Casino Matrix).

Also, it seems 19th Hole Casino is the only place running tournaments in the Bay Area (and they’re for like $25).

Man, I miss the tournies at Pete’s!

I don’t remember this “hofbrau” part of the restaurant (where the food is lined up in front of the patrons to pick out what they want to order to eat) truly, actually existing (I could be wrong, it’s been years, as we all know/it’s been for all of us). I do know that a big/main part of their restaurant was simply . . . A restaurant . . . Where you ordered food and sat down at a table or booth (or while playing, at least back in the day) and ate it. Not to mention the bar.

Either way, it’s been a long time/while, eh, wouldn’t you say? Rest of the state (not to mention country), has moved on. The Bay Area (and Oaks) truly move at the pace of molasses. Lots of lost revenue (not to mention, income/jobs).

I agree. Stones is awesome, truly a great venue. However (in my opinion), Stones isn’t what it used to be because it isn’t (currently) running tournaments. Do you know when/if they’re coming back?

I don't always write well.
Covid table capacities are still enforced from my understanding, I have not played locally in a very long time. If before covid you could have 10 players per table tournaments, but now only 8, for a 200 person tournament, 25 dealers are needed today, instead of 20 prior to covid. Higher costs for the card room.

8 player cash games are likely to drop more then 9 player cash games (pre covid) as the full drop is still taken, and a few more hands per hour can be dealt.

Incentive for the card rooms to deal cash games to capacity before dealing tournaments. Add to the fact, dealers are hard to higher. Add that California games drop more than poker tables. That is my point. I am sorry you can't find a tournament to play at locally.

Since Indian gaming was passed in 2000 ish, the Card rooms have been given the short stick across the board. Hawaiian Gardens was allowed to expand down south and added new tables around 2015. My understanding was this was supported by local government. I did not know about the state overriding San Jose.

Gone2Life, use pokeratlas to find tournaments. Call cardrooms to ask why they aren't running tournaments. This isn't Google.

Bay101 has all tables full with cash. I saw one empty once. M8trix I don't understand. They usually have 4 or more empty tables, but dealers complain about overtime. So I'd guess dealer shortage over regulation but idk. Their table games are over 50% full, but also see some of those empty for an entire down.

Just quick math for 30 hands per hour
BJ 4 seats min $5: (5*4*.5+4)*30=$420
Poker cash all postflop: (1+5)*30=$180
So tournament needs to make at least that much to justify switching a table over. An 8 hour 4 table tournament would need $5.7k in fees. A $100 tournament would need 570 players at 4 tables.

“Covid table capacities are still enforced from my understanding”

I don’t think Covid table capacities are being enforced (unless the Oaks was previously ten-handed - I don’t think so, but I could be wrong).

“I have not played locally in a very long time.”

That would explain why it seems like such a crazy thing to you that a tournament would be run. Have you never played at the Oaks (or Lucky Chances, or Pete’s, to name a few) before Covid?

You mentioned a few posts ago that you consider the Oaks a small card room. I certainly don’t. There a plenty of empty tables. I am loathe to repeat myself, but you got me doing it here. Assuming honest and good faith’ed communication on your part, hopefully it will help clear things up for you (and potential readers): places like the Oaks and Lucky Chances maximized their profits and table usage by running tournaments (in addition to cash games and “California games” - I always called ‘California games’ “table games”, but I’ll call them that here since you used that verbiage before), at I’m assuming strategic times (at least they seemed pretty smart/strategic to me) before Covid. I know . . . Because I was there lol (and a lot of other players, maybe not 200, but still - a lot). That’s why I assume/assumed dishonesty on your part, or now, perhaps, that you’ve never actually played at those places (at least before Covid).

I don’t know anything about the County Health Department limiting the number of tables in play due to Covid, but if they are/were, I’m assuming they are doing so on their volition, as opposed to following state guidelines, as (as I mentioned before - the rest of the state, not to mention country - has largely moved on, and I assume is not limiting the number of tables that can be in play).

“Add that California games drop more than poker tables.”

I don’t think California games “drop”. They may, like the Oaks, charge a flat fee per hand, which is $1/hand for their blackjack games iirc (I’m not sure it’s still that way). They may make more than poker games (that I wouldn’t doubt), but that’s because of players losing money to the dealers (as the odds are not in their favor), no so much because of a “drop”, although of course any fee charged to the players definitely helps.

The general intentions/spirit/motivations of what you’re saying/have said may be good from a Covid perspective, but so much of what you have stated is factually, and actually, wrong/incorrect. But, speaking from a Covid perspective, let’s not pretend that all the policies enforced over the past few years were good everyone. I’ve heard a decent number of people committed suicide. I myself found myself on this forum because I had a need to socialize and could find no where else to go.

Butt maybe a few more white ppl could have babies.

What do I know, I’m just an addict.

"Under the state’s Gambling Control Act, a city is prohibited from increasing the number of card tables in a card room by 25% or more than what it had on January 1, 1996."

Wtf when Texas is more liberal than Cali

Yeah, wtf, Cali.

Except we can have bars and restaurants in our casinos / card rooms.

Most of my playing has been at Commerce, Bike, HG, Hustler, Graton, AJ, and Lucky Chances. The oaks is a small cramped room. I've lived in the bay area since 2017 from moving from LA where I played a lot.+

I definitely don’t consider it a small, cramped room. There are definitely ones a lot smaller (not saying or implying that’s a bad thing - each one has its own vibe / personality that I like).

Boy am I glad you decided to stop posting here

Me too

Just like I’m glad they aren’t running any tournaments at the Oaks.

I like that

Wha??

What are wait times and number of 2/3/5 tables at Oaks and LC on a Saturday and Sunday? Maybe it was just football but m8trix and bay over an hour

gone2life, do you also go by TBC by any chance?

Yes, you are wrong. The Oaks had a hofbrau just as AlanBostick described. It was across from and parallel to the bar.

Yes, you are wrong. The Oaks was definitely 10-handed pre-COVID (for Hold'em and Omaha, that is; it was 8-handed for Lowball and 7-Card Stud).

I'm sorry you're so frustrated that tournaments aren't running the way they used to. This loss has been very detrimental for you—I get that. At the same time, your rants include a lot of speculation and misinformation. People here are trying to explain why poker tournaments may be loss leaders for card rooms—doublerup even provided some helpful math—and you just keep disagreeing and arguing and espousing your own pet theories.

We on this forum can debate until we're blue in the face whether dealer shortages are the reason (or one reason) why tournaments haven't resumed. But have you actually visited or called the card rooms in question and asked the shift managers when tournaments are coming back and why there has been such a long delay? You don't seem to want to believe the posters here who have had such conversations and are trying to share what they've learned, so maybe it's time to do your own research.

Now here's some exciting news: According to the Bravo Poker app, tournaments returned to Graton in the New Year:
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, $135 at 10 a.m.
Tuesday and Thursday, $165 Bounty at 6 p.m.

According to Bravo, Graton is now playing 9-handed with no plexiglass dividers, though the total number of tables is still reduced from pre-COVID days (15 vs. 20—if that bothers you, you could ask Greg Steinmetz, Graton's poker room manager, who is enforcing this reduction and why).

Mind you, I have not been to Graton in at least 6 months and am only reporting what I read on Bravo. For further info, please call Graton's poker room at (707) 588-7388.

Good luck on and off the felt.

Are masks mandatory or just really popular?

Never heard of that casino / card room.