i just came back from the grand opening of the slots-only Rivers Casino on the North Side. its really nice and only expected the 3000 slots as PA isnt licensed for table games.

Walking thru the casino, i saw a roulette table w a video screen table and video terminals to place the bets and the same type of table w blackjack w video dealers! (seen some of these in vegas too) awesome! $10 minimum and there was only a few ppl playing but all 3k slots were occupied. weird. +200 tho!

seems like a loophole as they are table games just w/o the table imo. rumor has it that they have a whole floor ready for BJ/roulette/poker when/if the law gets passed.

could pokertek electronic poker tables like in the Excalibur be next and what would be stopping them?

The Pa. governor, Randell, was careful to have the law wrote so that one player action would not change an other player's chances of winning or losing.
So poker is illegal.

As is normal BJ. What you seen has each player with their own deck, shuffled every hand, no counting ever possible.

The state takes 55% of the GROSS winning. So even if poker was possible the rake would make $10/$20 LHE or $2/$5 NLHE unwinnable.

Also, forget getting decent comp, since Randell is grabbing 55/100 of every $ you lose before a employee receives his min. wage or alight is turn on.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what rate other states such as NJ or NV tax casinos?

New Jersey takes 8% of gross winning.

FYI, the PA governor's name is Ed Rendell - not Randell.

Since you mentioned it twice, I realized that it's more than just a typo. I've seen you post in the Legislative forums before, where you indicated that you worked for a state rep or senator in PA. Just thought I'd save you from a potential embarrassing situation.

TY for your correction.

As far as indicating I work in any position for Pa., I never did. You have me mixed up with someone else.

I guess I do have you confused with somebody else, probably because I've seen you post on the PA poker issues before. There's somebody in the Legislation forum that said that he works for the staff of a state rep, and that poker is on the fast track, would be coming soon. That was about a year and a half ago.

He may have been right, but PA's "fast track" is like a decade or two.

I seem to remember the other poster too.
Many in Pa. are afraid that someone else is getting more than them. It slow things down.

The PA Casino Control Commission visited the Wheeling Island poker room on Friday. It is rumored poker tables will be established in PA by August of next year.

in the e-post gazette today.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09224/990320-100.stm

"State House discusses proposal for table games
Wednesday, August 12, 2009
By Tom Barnes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
HARRISBURG -- The push is on to allow Pennsylvania's slots casinos to add table games, such as blackjack, roulette, poker and dice......"

Please dealer. One time! I'll use my one time on being able to play poker 15 minutes from my house. I can't get into online poker so much.

Also:

"Mr. Tomlinson's bill calls for a casino to pay a one-time, upfront fee of $10 million for a table games license, and then it would apply a 12 percent tax rate to a casino's take from table games." Another bill says 22%, nowhere near the 55% tax on the Slots.

It also comes from take, which means the rake will probably be bigger than Wheeling, but might not be insurmountable. Still, B & M poker 15 minutes from my house with all of pittsburgh's degen gambolers (the ones that used to travel for hours to play powerball before PA got it). Yes, please.

The thing that puzzles me is that we always hear that 'real' casinos in Vegas and AC really make their money off of slots and poker doesn't generate nearly as much revenue per square foot. I assume this would not be as true of table games such as blackjack?

If it does any good I'll throw my 'one time!' in too since I would love poker to be spread legally at the 'racino' 15 minutes from my house as well.

Casinos want table games because the majority of players are -ev at it (roulette, blackjack, etc.) Poker is a different animal, but they know it'll be a steady source of income and it'll draw people who wouldn't normally go to the casino. (I've never been to the meadows because I don't do race betting and slots r dum).

Legislators want it because it'll mean two things 1) new source of income for the state that hasn't been counted before and B) more jobs. 8.3% unemployment rate and any monkey can work a table game. That makes some voters happy, which makes the politicians happy.

Lol @ my governor being for slots and against table games.

Edit: Any monkey can work a table game, but few do it well, I don't mean to insult any dealers who post here.

A 12% tax, as opposed to NJ 8%, would mean the Pa. casinos would make cuts other places. Workers' pay and benefits, players' comp, re-investment and profit.

Three to one they take it from the employees as much as possible than from the players and re-investment in that order.

A 22% tax is murderous.

The Governor's plan all along was to wait for all 14 casinos to open before considering table games. Currently there are 8 (?) open. So if he sticks to that plan, it'll be several years before they're even considered.

However there's a great deal of interest among casino owners and members of the legislature to expand sooner, according to just a few news articles such as...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09055/951270-100.stm
http://www.kyw1060.com/Sponsors-of-P...Make-T/4992033

If PA casinos brought in table games, and then expanded to resort hotels, the impact on Atlantic City revenue could potentially be devastating. The slot parlors have already had a sizable impact, but likely nothing compared to the impact of full service casinos in PA.

That was his plan before he couldn't even pass his own budget this year. State employees are losing their jobs by the hundreds and went without pay for a while because the budget still cannot be passed. There's a 1 billion gap between proposed budgets right now.

Looks like they are going for 24 tables, not a bad number considering how limited total table counts will be:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D9EFPVS81.htm

Thanks for the link

Not bad at all, wheeling island is about 20 tables I think, so considering the traffic they get, I'll take it.

Any word on when the grand opening for tables will be? All I've heard is "summer".

heard a rumor that table games start July 4th. cant fkn waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heard this rumor too, but no confirmation. Probably going to go the way of wheeling, tons of games and fish early, but once they run out of money, the games will get light, after 18 months or so, goign to try and hit it hard and often early after they open.

July 4th would be sick. But I know I'm going to do the same, as soon as it opens, going to hit the tables hard.

Also, is there any word on the games that will be spread?

Of course NLHE 1/2, 2/5, and 5/10 if enough people (I'm assuming).

Any word on PLO? Stud? Mixed games? Its probably doubtful but who knows.

dunno, I would really like to see some low limit games 4/8 or 5/10 for a while. These games don't get spread it seems at all in WV

Just on the news that will have 24 poker tables!!!

I can't wait for table games to finally reach Pittsburgh. I have been keeping a blog with updates on the news surrounding poker in Southwest PA. Give it a look: pittsburghpokerblog.wordpress.com

Any specific dates come out for opening day? I know they said this summer, and there was rumor for July 4th. Wasn't sure if they officially released a date yet.