Apparently there has been no rule change and this is instead a result of an investigation into wage claims by the "volunteers". As encore is the only room currently closing its a fair conclusion that they were the source of the investigation.

Maybe I wasn't clear. The issue of clubs only being sustainable businesses because they have a largely volunteer labor force is not cool or something to be defended, in my opinion. We don't need more businesses in the city claiming that they can open and have volunteer workers and not pay minimum wages. I never understood why clubs thought this was OK to begin with. The people pouring the beers are getting paid, why not the dealers? Well, because that would make the game illegal, is the answer. That is not a valid defense of nonpayment of workers, as it appears Encore found out the hard way.

I would never say "I thought you were cool" without being facetious. I'm sad that poker could go back underground in my favorite city and made a joke using some dumbass peer pressure phrasing.

Reading that letter leads me to believe we will be seeing nonprofit poker rooms soon enough

But the letter says you can't pay the dealers even if the house is nonprofit or a charity "casino night" type thing

That's right. If I'm reading it correctly redefining as a nonprofit would allow you to use volunteer dealers under the previously understood expectation.

Though there would then be other hurdles to overcome

Dealer expectation of pay seems to be something the letter prohibits regardless of the house being nonprofit. The letter correctly says that "volunteer" dealers expect pay. How does that change in your scenario? The dealers can't be tipped in your scenario and do it purely for fun?

So same revenue generators (daily fee, food+beverage) but no expectation of profits for the owners?

Owners take a salary instead

In what way does that ameliorate the dealer problem?

Ya looks like you are right Chad. Missed that first sentence of the second paragraph

RIP

Dang. I post a question 2 weeks ago asking about action and nobody responds. A post about clubs closing and 20 responses in a day. Guess y'all don't like tourist money


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Well the dealers never really were "volunteers." When you do volunteer work, you don't put your hand out for a tip. The dealers were working for tips only. And making a living wage doing so. But they were not covered by worker's compensation, unemployment, sick pay, any other kind of protection normally required for workers -- as well as not receiving minimum wage in addition to tips, as servers, bartenders and other service workers do receive. AND most of them probably were not reporting their income to federal and state taxing authorities!
Of course this system was going to be shut down at some point. It's a wonder it lasted this long. Encore/PDXPoker realized it first (or had it explained to them, if it was one of their dealers or customers that brought it to the authorities' attention) but the other clubs will have to stop using tips-only (let's not use that false term "volunteer") dealers as well I'm sure. Maybe player-dealing will work?

This. It was bound to end this way. Workers get protection and these were clearly workers.

Player dealing is obviously the way to go.

That can lead to more cheating...

I'd rather have a game to play. If I suspect cheating, I can always avoid the game. But then again, I'm very experienced with self-dealt games, so I'm quite comfortable with them.

But self-dealt games have worked well in many places in the past. I'd suggest that you guys give them a fair shot. And they're cheaper, too!

Yeah, self-dealt games are not ideal, but if it is being implied they will be allowed, I don't know why the clubs wouldn't give it a shot. Maybe at PDX everyone in the management was also taking turns dealing so it wouldn't make economic sense for anyone without the tips?

Does anyone know what is going on at Portland Meadows? I read a lot here about the new cardroom just before it opened and after the first few days, but nothing since then.

Self dealt games are probably much tougher games for many obvious reasons.

You think if a club switches to self-dealt, the good players will continue to play, but the bad ones will stay home? I don't know why that would be.

Bad players want to relax and have a good time. They are often less experienced and dealing is stressful and takes away from their relaxation. They will also be the slowest and most incompetent dealers.

Drunk players and newbs will be completely deterred also. So I can only imagine it being terrible for the games.

The most relaxing and having a good time playing poker I have ever had was always in self-dealt home games.