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Old 04-18-2013, 07:01 AM   #8676
CSFurious
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

$2,000.00 is not worth going to small claims court in Pennsylvania

most lawyers will not take the case & the case can be appealed easily at least 2 times

you would better off just playing somewhere else & writing a letter to the PA gaming authority
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:48 AM   #8677
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

As I noted:

PGCB is the proper venue, not small claims.

Villain in this hand would not be held liable. It would be the casino.

If it's past 30 days, you may be SOL, but I would follow up with them to make sure. If that's the case, then you screwed yourself.

You may get some leniency on the time if you can show good faith attempts to resolve the situation directly with Parx, or if you can show that Parx is dragging its feet on resolution.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:12 AM   #8678
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

I am not a lawyer, and don't have any stake in this. For the record, here are the relevant PGCB statutes I could find:
Quote:
§637a.8.
Placement of bets; minimum and maximum bets.
(a) Only players who are seated at the Poker table may receive cards and participate in each betting round.
(b) A player may participate in the betting during a round of play in accordance with the
following requirements:
(1) A player may bet only with the table stakes that were already on the Poker
table in front of the player when the round of play commenced.
(2) A player may add to his table stakes only between rounds of play and, except
as provided in paragraph (6), may not remove any of his table stakes from the Poker table at any time during a round of play.
(3) Currency that is available for use by a player may be utilized in accordance
with this section to initiate, call or raise a bet if the currency is expeditiously converted into value chips, tournament chips or plaques by the dealer.
If someone does decide to push this, don't be surprised if no one is allowed to "play behind" at 10/10 any longer. Careful what you wish for.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:33 AM   #8679
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFurious View Post
$2,000.00 is not worth going to small claims court in Pennsylvania

most lawyers will not take the case & the case can be appealed easily at least 2 times

you would better off just playing somewhere else & writing a letter to the PA gaming authority
1. Of course 2000 is worth going to small claims court. That is the definition of a small claims court. People go for $300-400. Filing fees are very low.

2. Not sure about PA, but in most states not only do you not need a lawyer in small claims court, but you CANNOT have one. You represent yourself (just tell your side of the story) and the defendant must represent himself. If either has witnesses, bring them, but not needed.

3. Appeals must be done by the loser, and almost NEVER win. Not an issue.

Who posted this? I think contacting the gaming authority should be done, but small claims court should definitely be considered.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:38 AM   #8680
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
I am not a lawyer, and don't have any stake in this. For the record, here are the relevant PGCB statutes I could find:


If someone does decide to push this, don't be surprised if no one is allowed to "play behind" at 10/10 any longer. Careful what you wish for.
What does that mean?? EVERYONE should be wising for not allowing anyone to play behind if there is even a 1 in 1000 chance of this happening again. Not even a close call here. "Careful what you wish for" - come on! You make it sound like there are disasterous consequences if this happened. I think that "consequence" should be the OBVIOUS, IMMEDIATE result of this if Parx dealers/floor will announce "playing behind"/get chips and then not enforce this.

I'm 100% behind the OP here - be persistant (but nice) with Parx, keep going to higher mgmt if needed, and get ready to contact the gaming authority right away (even if it has been more than 30 days) and let the Parx mgmt know that unless this is resolved in the next 2 days, you are contacting the gaming authority.(Not as a threat, just a polite heads up you are giving them to make sure they are aware of the next steps you are willing to take and the courtesy to them so that they are not surprised.)
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #8681
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
I am not a lawyer, and don't have any stake in this. For the record, here are the relevant PGCB statutes I could find:

. . .

(3) Currency that is available for use by a player may be utilized in accordance
with this section to initiate, call or raise a bet if the currency is expeditiously converted into value chips, tournament chips or plaques by the dealer.

.
Not that the OP needs a legal statute in his situation (because the Parx dealer announced playing behind), but I think the OP is covered in this situation anyway.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #8682
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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Originally Posted by njguy View Post
What does that mean?? EVERYONE should be wising for not allowing anyone to play behind if there is even a 1 in 1000 chance of this happening again.
It means that Parx started by not allowing playing behind. The 10/10 players wanted to be allowed to play behind, because they felt like it made their lives easier, better, or whatever, so they have wiggled and agitated and done whatever they have done to be in the situation they are now in.

I imagine it was originally intended to be used only between people who mutually trusted each other, but over time it became accepted at the table for all participants.

These folks might disagree with you about EVERYONE wanting not to allow it. They might prefer to allow it still, especially between players that they mutually trust. This might no longer be allowed if Parx is forced to forcefully insist on the table playing by the rules that are established for the room.

IMO, the odds are easily 10:1 that they go this route, and not the route of allowing and enforcing playing behind. Particularly because the statute seems to require the dealer to convert cash to chips, and the Parx dealer wells are not set up for this. In fact, I seem to recall Parx making a filing to allow the cash to be converted by the carts and/or floor instead of the dealers, but the appeal seems not to have been accepted by the PGCB (yet).
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:38 AM   #8683
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
It means that Parx started by not allowing playing behind. The 10/10 players wanted to be allowed to play behind, because they felt like it made their lives easier, better, or whatever, so they have wiggled and agitated and done whatever they have done to be in the situation they are now in.

I imagine it was originally intended to be used only between people who mutually trusted each other, but over time it became accepted at the table for all participants.

These folks might disagree with you about EVERYONE wanting not to allow it. They might prefer to allow it still, especially between players that they mutually trust. This might no longer be allowed if Parx is forced to forcefully insist on the table playing by the rules that are established for the room.

IMO, the odds are easily 10:1 that they go this route, and not the route of allowing and enforcing playing behind. Particularly because the statute seems to require the dealer to convert cash to chips, and the Parx dealer wells are not set up for this. In fact, I seem to recall Parx making a filing to allow the cash to be converted by the carts and/or floor instead of the dealers, but the appeal seems not to have been accepted by the PGCB (yet).
I see what you are saying - thanks for the background. But now that situations like in the OP's case have happened, I think you go back to the rules they started with. They gave it a try to accommodate exceptions, but now have proof that the exceptions cause big problems. Plus, where do you draw the line - even if people trust each other are you going to allow them to play with an IOU (i.e., they don't even given money to the floor, they just promise to pay tomorrow and the other player(s) are ok with it because they trust him - of course this wouldn't be allowed even if everyone agreed). Plus what is the downside - the player must play with less/sit out 2-3 hands out of hundreds. Absolutely a no brainer.

Yes, me saying EVERYONE was an exaggeration - there is almost nothing that EVERYONE agrees on - especially poker players.

Last edited by njguy; 04-18-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #8684
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You guys are missing the obvious reverse angle.

If villain had won the hand, freehat could've called the floor over and demanded that he should NOT have to pay the extra 2k because it wasn't in play at the beginning of the hand.

There are numerous other angles as well, some less obvious.

You guys are also forgetting that usually in these cases, it's a scummy reg angle shooting a fish or tourist. Here, we have the scenario where an action player angle shot a reg. This is affecting reactions somewhat.

All remedied, of course, by either the casino strictly adhering to the rules or players protecting themselves by demanding that chips be put in the middle before showdown.

I will agree that it is more profitable -- and the game is more fun -- if the casino is a bit looser with things. Especially in high stakes where you generally don't find as many noobs who need all the strict enforcement. It's easy to see why the regs want a looser, better game.

However, if I was OP the PGCB would've gotten involved sooner than later. 2k is a lot of equity to personally eat just so the game stays loose.

Last edited by cl0r0x70; 04-18-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #8685
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Quote:
Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
You guys are missing the obvious reverse angle.

If villain had won the hand, freehat could've called the floor over and demanded that he should NOT have to pay the extra 2k because it wasn't in play at the beginning of the hand.

There are numerous other angles as well, some less obvious.

You guys are also forgetting that usually in these cases, it's a scummy reg angle shooting a fish or tourist. Here, we have the scenario where an action player angle shot a reg. This is affecting reactions somewhat.

All remedied, of course, by either the casino strictly adhering to the rules or players protecting themselves by demanding that chips be put in the middle before showdown.

I will agree that it is more profitable -- and the game is more fun -- if the casino is a bit looser with things. Especially in high stakes where you generally don't find as many noobs who need all the strict enforcement. It's easy to see why the regs want a looser, better game.

However, if I was OP the PGCB would've gotten involved sooner than later. 2k is a lot of equity to personally eat just so the game stays loose.
I think the main reason freehat is persisting on this (and the main reason I would be very very upset) is because, if he did have every intention of paying the 2800 if he lost the hand (as I imagine he did), then he laid 2800 to win 800 on a flip. He gave 3.5:1 odds in a hand worth a lot of money that should have been 1:1. Just the thought alone of losing that much equity would drive me off a wall. I just bring this up because the feel I get from reading all of this is that freehat had every intention of paying full if he were to have lost the hand.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #8686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsoxnets5 View Post
I think the main reason freehat is persisting on this (and the main reason I would be very very upset) is because, if he did have every intention of paying the 2800 if he lost the hand (as I imagine he did), then he laid 2800 to win 800 on a flip. He gave 3.5:1 odds in a hand worth a lot of money that should have been 1:1. Just the thought alone of losing that much equity would drive me off a wall. I just bring this up because the feel I get from reading all of this is that freehat had every intention of paying full if he were to have lost the hand.
I believe the same. Wasn't trying to imply otherwise. I was speaking hypothetically.

Just pointing out the potential for things to go wrong a number of ways when the rules are bent.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:53 PM   #8687
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

how many runners on average for the Saturday noon tourney?
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:56 AM   #8688
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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how many runners on average for the Saturday noon tourney?
78 last Saturday.

PSA:
Wednesday--Usually 50-75 entrants
Thursday--Over 100 (less than 130)
Saturday--60-80
Sunday--Haven't played yet but from what I hear it gets a lot, 150ish
Tuesday--Not sure but I believe in the 75 area.
Monday--Same as Tuesday.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:17 AM   #8689
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Maybe I'm biased for knowing freehat2.0 personally but he would be the last guy who would do anything to jeopardize his integrity.

Unfortunately, I think that Parx was holding out on giving freehat2.0 an answer on whether he will be compensated w $2k worth of timed rake until the statue of limitation was over for filing a complaint w the pgcb. Its a +ev move for them i must admit. I mean if Parx is known for clipping full time dealers/floor to save money on employee benefits, this tactic wouldn't be so far fetched.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:19 AM   #8690
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You guys are completely misinterpreting my post.

I wouldn't suggest that freehat, from what I know of him, would resort to angle shooting.

Just was pointing out some of the many bad situations that can happen when the players want to bend the rules contrary to the letter of the casino and PCGB enforcement policies.

Also, even tho time may have technically run out, I still think PGCB is still worth a shot, especially if you've spent this time working with Parx looking for a solution.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #8691
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Shipped the tourney tonight after taking 3rd last Saturday easy game. I will not mention any names but wanted to say that everyone at the final table was classy the whole way and I had a very good time
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:41 PM   #8692
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Played in Sunday tournament, 165 runners, they were paying 21 people.
Seem high,payout really low. last sunday 145 paying I think 17-18. Anyone know thought process for more than 10%. I cashed last week and with the bounties it was ok, Is it a bounty thing. Just seems that you really need to finish top five to make real money , final table is not enough/
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #8693
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

What is the best way to get Parx from NYC using public transportation ?
Thank you.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:58 PM   #8694
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

Quote:
Originally Posted by pushkin View Post
What is the best way to get Parx from NYC using public transportation ?
Thank you.
From what I've heard, train to Trenton, SEPTA train to Philly, SEPTA bus to Parx.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:40 PM   #8695
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

NJ transit Northeast corridor line to Trenton. Trenton train station is really close to Parx. You can probably even take a cab for a reasonable price from Trenton.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:57 PM   #8696
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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NJ transit Northeast corridor line to Trenton. Trenton train station is really close to Parx. You can probably even take a cab for a reasonable price from Trenton.
Pushing 20 miles--north of $50? maybe even north $75 considering toll?
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:46 AM   #8697
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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Pushing 20 miles--north of $50? maybe even north $75 considering toll?
yes taking taxi from Trnton might be worst idea ever

i used to live in Lower Bucks County, PA near Parx

my way from NYC:

(1) take NJ Transit from NYC to Trenton;

(2) transfer to SEPTA train and ride the line that stops at Cornwell Heights; get a pass that lets you transfer to a bus

(3) from Cornwell Heights take the bus to the stop that is closest to Parx

you can do all of this on SEPTA's website

you could also just take a cab from Cornwell Heights

taking a cab from Trenton is dumb, i.e., you might as well just rent a car
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:53 PM   #8698
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

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Originally Posted by improvepoker View Post
Hey, Ari. Can you start spreading $1-$3nl with a $100min-$500max buyin? Looking forward to Big Stax II, baby. Thanks
One of the regulars made a suggestion that I thought was very good...he said since the $2/$5 game plays very big, they might as well just make that a 5/5 and add a 2/5 that has a 500 max. He felt that a lot of players who would take a shot at 2/5 feel intimidated by the majority of players at the table having near $1000. I suppose there are downsides to that but I thought it was a good idea.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:24 AM   #8699
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

1) Bags are allowed in. They just have to be checked.

2) A bomb went off in a crowded city, killing 3 people and injuring over 200 more. A crazy person who wants to set another one off can live anywhere. He can strike anywhere just because he feels like it. I am glad they are taking precautions, especially since, if they didn't, you'd have a bunch of people complaining about that.

3) I saw a kid give the security guard crap for checking his bag the other day. What an arrogant POS. First of all the guy is just doing his job. Secondly, the policy is there to protect people. Get off your high horse and deal with the ten second inconvenience.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:10 PM   #8700
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Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2013.03.18

also, wtf do you need in a bag while you are playing poker?

i have been playing poker for over a decade & guess what? i have never brought a bag
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