This is whatever the opposite of "killing two birds with one stone" is. Two terrible bits of news in one post. Any idea when for the bbj and why not for the poker room move? I figured closing down all the tables downstairs was step 1 of the transition...now we have NO degens possibly coming upstairs?

It will also pull some degens out of the 10/10 game to play in the 2/5 game.

If it gets high, I can see it actually hurting the 10/10 game for periods of time as the degens move down to play the lottery, and some of the borderline regs move down as well to chase the BBJP chasers.

I know all the regs hate the BBJP, but there's a reason casinos implement it. It brings in soft money.

The 10/10 regs will have to see how this plays out, and whether taking the extra drop is worth the decrease in player pool.

Yeaaaah I think the 1/2 and 2/5 players can complain a little more losing an extra dollar every hand won.

Is rake at parx $5 or $6

Parx has the best dealers hands down at ring games. Lot of women dealers who did a really good job. Lot of the poker rooms dealers are buddy buddy to a fault with regs , Parx dealers made everyone feel welcome and where very professional at all times.

I wasn't too impressed with a lot of the tournament dealers .

It will hurt the 10/10 game tremendously when the jackpot gets high, 90% of the players you would want to play against will be playing BBJ eligible tables.

Heres another secret, which really shouldn't be too much of a secret but most regs are just blinded by their hatred of the BBJ . I'll put the secret in red font so it doesn't get out.... the 10/10 games will get worse even when the jackpot is not high..most recreational players prefer jackpot tables, parx has plenty of those type players who play both 2/5 and 10/10, their play will get weighted even more heavily towards 2/5

-There will be zero players who decide to play 10/10 to avoid the BBJ drop that you would really really want to play. On the flip side there will be plenty of times fish you really want to play with will chose 2/5 instead because of the BBJ

If Parx implements the BBJ I'd vote to have it at 10/10 as well. It's gonna happen eventually anyway. Do we really need to see the games get worse for two months before allowing it. Spare yourself the frustration and spare me the "I told you so" I'll need to dish out. Just go with the flow and don't swim against the current.

A floor has told me that 10/10 will, by default, be in the BBJ (Matt Glantz has said otherwise). The floor said the 10/10 regs can petition to exclude 10/10 but whatever choice is made will be permanent.

He was explicit in saying Parx will not be like Borgata and 10/10 can't enter the BBJ if they exclude it or leave the BBJ if they include it.

how can i sign the petition to have it not included?

I have a list going of people who reg the 10/10 that are opposed to the BBJ. I started the list tonight.

You can also email Ari directly. Just get it in writing.

Nick, do me a favor and take a look at that list and think how many of those players do you get excited to play with.

I've been there with you guys complaining about the BBJ and the players who complain are always the winning players who you wouldn't really want to play with anything.

Just like online poker sites that cater to regs allowing HUDS and other winning player advantages the games will get worse and worse. Whereas the sites that cater to recreational players will have more fish and better games.

Same thing with live poker, rec players want BBJ, so let them have it, don't be shortsighted.

There was a player who came to our 10/10 game tonight and lost 4 $500 buyins. He's the type that might chase the BBJ.

I respect your side of the argument. Would a $7 time per half hour be better than a $1 drop if they allowed it? It would mean less fills and chops which would slow the game down. It also might result in overpaying but I don't know if the PGCB would allow this.

I don't think I am being shortsighted. If I win 2 pots per hour with the BBJ and play 2000 hours, that's 4k a year. Going mostly to players at lower limits while adding the wasted time to fill and make change at my game.

Can someone tell me how many players Parx get for their $230 on saturdays and how much 1st usually gets

$7 per half sounds better then $1 / hand to me.

It looks bad when you look at it like that, thats why you shouldn't look it like that!!!! Sounds silly but it makes sense.

Same with tipping, take those same numbers and maybe average tip of $2 twice an hour and you are giving up $8000 per year. If you had a flashing vision of $8000 being flushed down the toilet every time you won a hand nobody would ever tip, so don't drive yourself crazy and worry about stuff like that. It's good to be aware of it, but life is too short to stress about that. There is a fine line between the unaware who tip $5 everyhand and not tipping at all.... ( I used $2 avg because even though you might tip $1 hand, with big pots I even see you nits tip $5+ occasionally even though long run its horrible to do)

Same with rake, those numbers used make it $20000 /year in rake at 2/5 before the extra $1. Thinking of it in those terms all the time will make you hate the PARX for not treating you better!!

Assuming $1 tip you are now paying $7 total instead of $6 for a 15% increase in the cost of winning a hand. So cost is going up 15%. I'd argue that better games can account for a lot of that 15%, whether its more or less I really don't know. What I do know is recreational players love the BBJ idea, the more of those players the better. In addition to that when the jackpot gets high, the room will be busier, lots of rec players will come and squeeze in extra trip just because the BBJ is so high. In addition they will play even worse then normal to try to hit the BBJ. More bad players, playing even worse then normal when the BBJ gets high sounds fun and exciting to me.

Here is another pro BBJ factor. You still can win it!! Yes even you winning players too! You don't even need to be the big winner, just being at the table could get some of that money back. So aside from recouping that extra 15% in rake by the games being better, maybe you get some of the money directly back by being at the table when it hits.

I dunno, I've seen around 250,000 hands of live poker, and I've yet to even come close to a BBJ. I figure I need to hit a table share just to break even. I'll sign the petition.

I agree with this.. if they do decide to get the BBJ it should be included in the 10/10 game also.

Parx is a champion at having its cake and eating it too. Parx is right up there almost neck and neck for revenue generated with Borgata based on statistics another poster put up. Now Parx is taking out another dollar whats the big deal right?

Max rake at any other casino is 3 dollars at 1 2n while at parx it is six dollars. Bad beat jackpots are for fish who know nothing about poker. Parx is now going to be taking out 7 dollars max at 1 2 nl while giving nothing back to the players? Add a dollar tip avg for dealer and its 8 dollars. Lol at you have a chance of hitting bb jackpot you also have about the same chance for hitting the lottery.

All other casinos have bbjackpots but all other casinos don't charge six dollars max rake at 1 2nl to players and all other poker rooms give out substantial comps to players while parx just keeps taking and taking while giving nothing back.

Zecko,

Where do you get your 6 dollar rake stat at? Which casino do you play at that max rake at a 1/2 NLHE game is 3 dollars? Have you played at any other PA casinos? Are your posts developed to strictly confuse and level people?

He is including the $1 tip as "rake."

Well I do think $7 per half hour rake would be much better than a $1 drop. That way you kind of solve the problem of the game slowing down from fills and constant $9/$1 chops.

As a winning player having the game slow down by 1-2 hands per hour is an additional and very significant tax on top of the $1 drop. Unlike the BBJ, you don't get that money back in the long run.

Zrap, well said. stop making so much sense in this thread.

All summer long when the BBJ was high, even the crappy Showboat was crowded with bad players looking to hit a miracle. As long as they had a semblance of a BBJ hand dealt to them, they we're willing to put money in a pot. This bad play alone should account for your 15%. Just one bad 2c6c call PF, OOP by a BBJ chaser is almost enough to pay for your increase in costs. BBJ's will loosen the games up at least enough to offset most(if not all) of that 15% increase.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, whats really going to happen is the 10/10 game will dry up during high Jackpot times, causing most 10/10 regs to either play against each other(which in turn should decrease win rates) or it will make 10/10 regs play 2/5 bc the games will be more plentiful.


Could really care less if they add it or not. The more important draw to get new people into the poker room, is move the room to the Main casino.

Not too worried about the fills, but the $9/$1 chops could be a problem, not sure what the best way to handle that is, have a reg with a $20 stack or $1's pay the BBJ everyhand then get refunded after the $20 is done. I have no idea.

Don't sweat it though, what are we going to worry about next? The young dudes in their 20's playing on their phones all the time slowing the game up. Last week this was this young good looking asian kid was playing on his phone the whole night needing a nudge to act every hand, kid might have been one of the best players on the whole east coast so I didn't want to say anything.

Hi 2+2!

For a first time trip to a casino to play 1/2 NL, is parx better then sands regarding the softness at the lowest limit?

Might be a good time to consider moving back to 5/10 if the bbjp comes around. It makes more sense for dealers to chop a red for the drop than a peach.