Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Venues & Communities Discussion of live, legal poker venues, and discussion among players in live poker "neighborhoods."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2013, 04:29 AM   #8476
TDMarathon86
journeyman
 
TDMarathon86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 26.2 miles away
Posts: 263
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashinynickel View Post
Not sure if this has been posted yet but dealer at my table confirmed BBJ is coming to the rake games and the poker room will not be moving to the main casino.
This is whatever the opposite of "killing two birds with one stone" is. Two terrible bits of news in one post. Any idea when for the bbj and why not for the poker room move? I figured closing down all the tables downstairs was step 1 of the transition...now we have NO degens possibly coming upstairs?
TDMarathon86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 05:57 PM   #8477
cl0r0x70
veteran
 
cl0r0x70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: posting poker goals and challenges
Posts: 3,313
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMarathon86 View Post
This is whatever the opposite of "killing two birds with one stone" is. Two terrible bits of news in one post. Any idea when for the bbj and why not for the poker room move? I figured closing down all the tables downstairs was step 1 of the transition...now we have NO degens possibly coming upstairs?
It will also pull some degens out of the 10/10 game to play in the 2/5 game.

If it gets high, I can see it actually hurting the 10/10 game for periods of time as the degens move down to play the lottery, and some of the borderline regs move down as well to chase the BBJP chasers.

I know all the regs hate the BBJP, but there's a reason casinos implement it. It brings in soft money.

The 10/10 regs will have to see how this plays out, and whether taking the extra drop is worth the decrease in player pool.
cl0r0x70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 07:18 PM   #8478
Redsoxnets5
veteran
 
Redsoxnets5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New Jersey!
Posts: 2,108
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Yeaaaah I think the 1/2 and 2/5 players can complain a little more losing an extra dollar every hand won.
Redsoxnets5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:03 PM   #8479
tiltmynuts
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 81
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Is rake at parx $5 or $6
tiltmynuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #8480
ZeckoRiver
Pooh-Bah
 
ZeckoRiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Check raising stupid tourists
Posts: 5,592
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Parx has the best dealers hands down at ring games. Lot of women dealers who did a really good job. Lot of the poker rooms dealers are buddy buddy to a fault with regs , Parx dealers made everyone feel welcome and where very professional at all times.

I wasn't too impressed with a lot of the tournament dealers .
ZeckoRiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:18 AM   #8481
zrap
adept
 
zrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 841
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
It will also pull some degens out of the 10/10 game to play in the 2/5 game.

If it gets high, I can see it actually hurting the 10/10 game for periods of time as the degens move down to play the lottery, and some of the borderline regs move down as well to chase the BBJP chasers.


I know all the regs hate the BBJP, but there's a reason casinos implement it. It brings in soft money.

The 10/10 regs will have to see how this plays out, and whether taking the extra drop is worth the decrease in player pool.
It will hurt the 10/10 game tremendously when the jackpot gets high, 90% of the players you would want to play against will be playing BBJ eligible tables.

Heres another secret, which really shouldn't be too much of a secret but most regs are just blinded by their hatred of the BBJ . I'll put the secret in red font so it doesn't get out.... the 10/10 games will get worse even when the jackpot is not high..most recreational players prefer jackpot tables, parx has plenty of those type players who play both 2/5 and 10/10, their play will get weighted even more heavily towards 2/5

-There will be zero players who decide to play 10/10 to avoid the BBJ drop that you would really really want to play. On the flip side there will be plenty of times fish you really want to play with will chose 2/5 instead because of the BBJ

If Parx implements the BBJ I'd vote to have it at 10/10 as well. It's gonna happen eventually anyway. Do we really need to see the games get worse for two months before allowing it. Spare yourself the frustration and spare me the "I told you so" I'll need to dish out. Just go with the flow and don't swim against the current.
zrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #8482
ashinynickel
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,608
A floor has told me that 10/10 will, by default, be in the BBJ (Matt Glantz has said otherwise). The floor said the 10/10 regs can petition to exclude 10/10 but whatever choice is made will be permanent.

He was explicit in saying Parx will not be like Borgata and 10/10 can't enter the BBJ if they exclude it or leave the BBJ if they include it.
ashinynickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:28 PM   #8483
JasonP530
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,314
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

how can i sign the petition to have it not included?
JasonP530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:58 PM   #8484
ashinynickel
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,608
I have a list going of people who reg the 10/10 that are opposed to the BBJ. I started the list tonight.

You can also email Ari directly. Just get it in writing.
ashinynickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 11:35 PM   #8485
zrap
adept
 
zrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 841
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Nick, do me a favor and take a look at that list and think how many of those players do you get excited to play with.

I've been there with you guys complaining about the BBJ and the players who complain are always the winning players who you wouldn't really want to play with anything.

Just like online poker sites that cater to regs allowing HUDS and other winning player advantages the games will get worse and worse. Whereas the sites that cater to recreational players will have more fish and better games.

Same thing with live poker, rec players want BBJ, so let them have it, don't be shortsighted.
zrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 11:58 PM   #8486
ashinynickel
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,608
There was a player who came to our 10/10 game tonight and lost 4 $500 buyins. He's the type that might chase the BBJ.

I respect your side of the argument. Would a $7 time per half hour be better than a $1 drop if they allowed it? It would mean less fills and chops which would slow the game down. It also might result in overpaying but I don't know if the PGCB would allow this.
ashinynickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #8487
JasonP530
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,314
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by zrap View Post
Nick, do me a favor and take a look at that list and think how many of those players do you get excited to play with.

I've been there with you guys complaining about the BBJ and the players who complain are always the winning players who you wouldn't really want to play with anything.

Just like online poker sites that cater to regs allowing HUDS and other winning player advantages the games will get worse and worse. Whereas the sites that cater to recreational players will have more fish and better games.

Same thing with live poker, rec players want BBJ, so let them have it, don't be shortsighted.
I don't think I am being shortsighted. If I win 2 pots per hour with the BBJ and play 2000 hours, that's 4k a year. Going mostly to players at lower limits while adding the wasted time to fill and make change at my game.
JasonP530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 12:48 AM   #8488
FRYTWO
grinder
 
FRYTWO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Can someone tell me how many players Parx get for their $230 on saturdays and how much 1st usually gets
FRYTWO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:09 AM   #8489
zrap
adept
 
zrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 841
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashinynickel View Post
There was a player who came to our 10/10 game tonight and lost 4 $500 buyins. He's the type that might chase the BBJ.

I respect your side of the argument. Would a $7 time per half hour be better than a $1 drop if they allowed it? It would mean less fills and chops which would slow the game down. It also might result in overpaying but I don't know if the PGCB would allow this.

$7 per half sounds better then $1 / hand to me.
zrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:32 AM   #8490
zrap
adept
 
zrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 841
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonP530 View Post
I don't think I am being shortsighted. If I win 2 pots per hour with the BBJ and play 2000 hours, that's 4k a year. Going mostly to players at lower limits while adding the wasted time to fill and make change at my game.
It looks bad when you look at it like that, thats why you shouldn't look it like that!!!! Sounds silly but it makes sense.

Same with tipping, take those same numbers and maybe average tip of $2 twice an hour and you are giving up $8000 per year. If you had a flashing vision of $8000 being flushed down the toilet every time you won a hand nobody would ever tip, so don't drive yourself crazy and worry about stuff like that. It's good to be aware of it, but life is too short to stress about that. There is a fine line between the unaware who tip $5 everyhand and not tipping at all.... ( I used $2 avg because even though you might tip $1 hand, with big pots I even see you nits tip $5+ occasionally even though long run its horrible to do)

Same with rake, those numbers used make it $20000 /year in rake at 2/5 before the extra $1. Thinking of it in those terms all the time will make you hate the PARX for not treating you better!!

Assuming $1 tip you are now paying $7 total instead of $6 for a 15% increase in the cost of winning a hand. So cost is going up 15%. I'd argue that better games can account for a lot of that 15%, whether its more or less I really don't know. What I do know is recreational players love the BBJ idea, the more of those players the better. In addition to that when the jackpot gets high, the room will be busier, lots of rec players will come and squeeze in extra trip just because the BBJ is so high. In addition they will play even worse then normal to try to hit the BBJ. More bad players, playing even worse then normal when the BBJ gets high sounds fun and exciting to me.

Here is another pro BBJ factor. You still can win it!! Yes even you winning players too! You don't even need to be the big winner, just being at the table could get some of that money back. So aside from recouping that extra 15% in rake by the games being better, maybe you get some of the money directly back by being at the table when it hits.
zrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:39 AM   #8491
Midnight Cowboy
grinder
 
Midnight Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the Village by the Sea
Posts: 549
I dunno, I've seen around 250,000 hands of live poker, and I've yet to even come close to a BBJ. I figure I need to hit a table share just to break even. I'll sign the petition.
Midnight Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:24 AM   #8492
TreMomey
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 194
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by zrap View Post
It will hurt the 10/10 game tremendously when the jackpot gets high, 90% of the players you would want to play against will be playing BBJ eligible tables.

Heres another secret, which really shouldn't be too much of a secret but most regs are just blinded by their hatred of the BBJ . I'll put the secret in red font so it doesn't get out.... the 10/10 games will get worse even when the jackpot is not high..most recreational players prefer jackpot tables, parx has plenty of those type players who play both 2/5 and 10/10, their play will get weighted even more heavily towards 2/5

-There will be zero players who decide to play 10/10 to avoid the BBJ drop that you would really really want to play. On the flip side there will be plenty of times fish you really want to play with will chose 2/5 instead because of the BBJ

If Parx implements the BBJ I'd vote to have it at 10/10 as well. It's gonna happen eventually anyway. Do we really need to see the games get worse for two months before allowing it. Spare yourself the frustration and spare me the "I told you so" I'll need to dish out. Just go with the flow and don't swim against the current.
I agree with this.. if they do decide to get the BBJ it should be included in the 10/10 game also.
TreMomey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #8493
ZeckoRiver
Pooh-Bah
 
ZeckoRiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Check raising stupid tourists
Posts: 5,592
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Parx is a champion at having its cake and eating it too. Parx is right up there almost neck and neck for revenue generated with Borgata based on statistics another poster put up. Now Parx is taking out another dollar whats the big deal right?

Max rake at any other casino is 3 dollars at 1 2n while at parx it is six dollars. Bad beat jackpots are for fish who know nothing about poker. Parx is now going to be taking out 7 dollars max at 1 2 nl while giving nothing back to the players? Add a dollar tip avg for dealer and its 8 dollars. Lol at you have a chance of hitting bb jackpot you also have about the same chance for hitting the lottery.

All other casinos have bbjackpots but all other casinos don't charge six dollars max rake at 1 2nl to players and all other poker rooms give out substantial comps to players while parx just keeps taking and taking while giving nothing back.
ZeckoRiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 10:12 AM   #8494
PASANDSMAN
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 716
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Zecko,

Where do you get your 6 dollar rake stat at? Which casino do you play at that max rake at a 1/2 NLHE game is 3 dollars? Have you played at any other PA casinos? Are your posts developed to strictly confuse and level people?
PASANDSMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 11:57 AM   #8495
ashinynickel
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by PASANDSMAN View Post
Zecko,

Where do you get your 6 dollar rake stat at? Which casino do you play at that max rake at a 1/2 NLHE game is 3 dollars? Have you played at any other PA casinos? Are your posts developed to strictly confuse and level people?
He is including the $1 tip as "rake."
ashinynickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #8496
ashinynickel
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,608
Well I do think $7 per half hour rake would be much better than a $1 drop. That way you kind of solve the problem of the game slowing down from fills and constant $9/$1 chops.

As a winning player having the game slow down by 1-2 hands per hour is an additional and very significant tax on top of the $1 drop. Unlike the BBJ, you don't get that money back in the long run.
ashinynickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:04 PM   #8497
Guyra
grinder
 
Guyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 550
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by zrap View Post
It looks bad when you look at it like that, thats why you shouldn't look it like that!!!! Sounds silly but it makes sense.

Same with tipping, take those same numbers and maybe average tip of $2 twice an hour and you are giving up $8000 per year. If you had a flashing vision of $8000 being flushed down the toilet every time you won a hand nobody would ever tip, so don't drive yourself crazy and worry about stuff like that. It's good to be aware of it, but life is too short to stress about that. There is a fine line between the unaware who tip $5 everyhand and not tipping at all.... ( I used $2 avg because even though you might tip $1 hand, with big pots I even see you nits tip $5+ occasionally even though long run its horrible to do)

Same with rake, those numbers used make it $20000 /year in rake at 2/5 before the extra $1. Thinking of it in those terms all the time will make you hate the PARX for not treating you better!!

Assuming $1 tip you are now paying $7 total instead of $6 for a 15% increase in the cost of winning a hand. So cost is going up 15%. I'd argue that better games can account for a lot of that 15%, whether its more or less I really don't know. What I do know is recreational players love the BBJ idea, the more of those players the better. In addition to that when the jackpot gets high, the room will be busier, lots of rec players will come and squeeze in extra trip just because the BBJ is so high. In addition they will play even worse then normal to try to hit the BBJ. More bad players, playing even worse then normal when the BBJ gets high sounds fun and exciting to me.

Here is another pro BBJ factor. You still can win it!! Yes even you winning players too! You don't even need to be the big winner, just being at the table could get some of that money back. So aside from recouping that extra 15% in rake by the games being better, maybe you get some of the money directly back by being at the table when it hits.

Zrap, well said. stop making so much sense in this thread.

All summer long when the BBJ was high, even the crappy Showboat was crowded with bad players looking to hit a miracle. As long as they had a semblance of a BBJ hand dealt to them, they we're willing to put money in a pot. This bad play alone should account for your 15%. Just one bad 2c6c call PF, OOP by a BBJ chaser is almost enough to pay for your increase in costs. BBJ's will loosen the games up at least enough to offset most(if not all) of that 15% increase.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, whats really going to happen is the 10/10 game will dry up during high Jackpot times, causing most 10/10 regs to either play against each other(which in turn should decrease win rates) or it will make 10/10 regs play 2/5 bc the games will be more plentiful.


Could really care less if they add it or not. The more important draw to get new people into the poker room, is move the room to the Main casino.
Guyra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #8498
zrap
adept
 
zrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 841
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashinynickel View Post
Well I do think $7 per half hour rake would be much better than a $1 drop. That way you kind of solve the problem of the game slowing down from fills and constant $9/$1 chops.

As a winning player having the game slow down by 1-2 hands per hour is an additional and very significant tax on top of the $1 drop. Unlike the BBJ, you don't get that money back in the long run.
Not too worried about the fills, but the $9/$1 chops could be a problem, not sure what the best way to handle that is, have a reg with a $20 stack or $1's pay the BBJ everyhand then get refunded after the $20 is done. I have no idea.

Don't sweat it though, what are we going to worry about next? The young dudes in their 20's playing on their phones all the time slowing the game up. Last week this was this young good looking asian kid was playing on his phone the whole night needing a nudge to act every hand, kid might have been one of the best players on the whole east coast so I didn't want to say anything.
zrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 02:39 AM   #8499
Lux Lucis
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
Re: Parx Casino (Bensalem, PA) -- FAQ updated 2011.09.08

Hi 2+2!

For a first time trip to a casino to play 1/2 NL, is parx better then sands regarding the softness at the lowest limit?
Lux Lucis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:12 AM   #8500
cl0r0x70
veteran
 
cl0r0x70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: posting poker goals and challenges
Posts: 3,313
Might be a good time to consider moving back to 5/10 if the bbjp comes around. It makes more sense for dealers to chop a red for the drop than a peach.
cl0r0x70 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive