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Old 07-30-2011, 08:06 PM   #5426
beetman
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

I recently saw one of the worst dealer decisions ever and unfortunately wasn't able to get the floor over to correct it:

Dealer at 4-8 limit was very obviously new (supervisor explained to her that 20 chips fit in each rack slot.) Old guy in 8 seat was having a bit of trouble following the action, nothing unusual for 4-8. Old guy had been betting the whole way and heads up on the river, old guy bet on a board like AQxx3, and 4 seat raised. Old guy tabled his hand, AQ, as soon as seat 4 put chips out, obviously not aware that seat 4 at the opposite end of the table raised, as neither seat 4 nor dealer verbalized the raise.

Rather than say "seat 4 raised," dealer mucked the old guy's tabled hand and began pushing the pot to the other player. Old guy protested and the dealer explained that tabling your hand without calling a raise is considered a fold. (???) I can see applications of that rule in multiway pots involving exposed cards that affect the action, but it was a heads up pot. the old guy made absolutely nothing resembling a mucking motion, and the old guy had a had that nobody would ever fold for one bet in limit.

I was in the 3 seat and didn't understand what was going on first, at first I thought the dealer thought seat 4 didn't have cards until dealer started pushing that guy the pot. The unfortunate part is that all of the other old guys at the table didn't argue on the old guy's behalf, they just tried explaining to him that "turning your cards up without calling a bet is considered a fold." As I realized what was going on, I said, that's not right, call the floor over but by then the old guy had picked up his chips and left. I felt like I was in bizarro world because the consensus at the table was that the dealer understood the rule accurately, and the old guy was at fault for not noticing the raise.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:48 PM   #5427
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Not to be results oriented, but....... what did the two players have, beetman? Did the old guy have the real winning hand?

If he did, he should be making a scene. If he didn't, oh well.

In either case, the dealer probably lost PARX one poker customer. She did not control the action and definitely was not paying attention.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:34 PM   #5428
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Old guy had AQ on a board of AQxx3, the other guy never tabled his hand because the dealer mucked the old guy's hand before old guy was given a chance to call. Given the action (old guy bets flop and turn and is called, is raised on a rag river) it's pretty likely the old guy had the best hand, unless the other guy called the whole way with 33 or was slowplaying some other set, but it's a lot more likely the other guy the 3 gave him some sort of two pair, both by Bayesian analysis and that he didn't seem to slowplay much.

The dealer actually did seem to be paying attention, aside from not verbalizing that seat 3 raised the river, or if she did verbalize it, it wasn't very loud. And even if she did verbalize it, in any daytime low limit game probably half the players are 65 or older, so it's basically par for the course that someone doesn't understand what the dealer said. The bigger issue was that the dealer seemed to think that tabling your hand in a heads up pot in a limit game before you've called the raise actually constitutes a fold.
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:29 AM   #5429
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

my two favorite things about Parx since deciding to play there...

- Bar actually in the poker room where i can get food/drinks/smoke and be back to the table asap.
- Every waitress is really ****ing hot. It's quite impressive.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:08 AM   #5430
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by TheUpAndUp View Post
I don't get why the Parx Open Poker Classic only has one form of poker during their 2 weeks of tourneys, only NLHE that makes me sad. How about a HORSE, OE, Limit Hold 'Em, Stud, HOSE, O8, or literally anything other than all NLHE. I can't wait for the day when people start realizing how boring and simple NLHE is when compared to any other form of poker.
So how is it that NL is "boring and simple" but fixed limit is not? Being able to bet any amount, up to your whole stack, is what makes NL the best game there is. When I get a fish to stack off on the river, I find that to be a whole lot more exciting than min-raising him $30 or whatever.
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:40 AM   #5431
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by jcs317 View Post
OE $6-12 game - what is the normal buy-in? Min buy-in?
I buy-in for 300 remember the 08 round is 1/2 kill.
You can always get more chips if you need to.
Never really understood the reason to buy in big.
I guess some like a mountain of 2.00 chips in front of them.
Gives off illusion that they may know how to play?
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:27 AM   #5432
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by bullseye180 View Post
I buy-in for 300 remember the 08 round is 1/2 kill.
You can always get more chips if you need to.
Never really understood the reason to buy in big.
I guess some like a mountain of 2.00 chips in front of them.
Gives off illusion that they may know how to play?
No, it makes the game better. More chips on the table means players have more chips to lose before going home. And it also means players will put more into the pot (it's psychological).
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:06 AM   #5433
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Don't know how important this is for you, but BJ is a bad choice for match plays because of ties and the inability to double/split your match play ticket. Roulette or craps (which I think is permitted) is almost certainly a better bet.
I pushed one hand of black Jack and they left the match play ticket for the next deal (as I expected they would).

The double / split scenarios you describe would increase the house edge over the "match play" portion of your bet, but would it seriously compromise the EV of basic strategy Bjack to the point that Roulette with match play becomes the better bet? Interesting, Are you certain of this?- Roulette's house edge is a minimum of 5.26% and perfect basic strategy Bjack's house edge is .59% - I gotta call false here.

Reference:

http://wizardofodds.com/roulette

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:31 PM   #5434
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullseye180 View Post
I buy-in for 300 remember the 08 round is 1/2 kill.
You can always get more chips if you need to.
Never really understood the reason to buy in big.
I guess some like a mountain of 2.00 chips in front of them.
Gives off illusion that they may know how to play?
Because it's a pain to rebuy at Parx, you either need to find a chip runner or walk up to the game. Even though the 6-12 OE game is usually (always?) pretty close to the cage, there can still be lines. I played a fair bit of 4-8 limit HE the last few months to qualify for the freerolls and even though I always buy in for $200 and the game was generally pretty passive (i.e. fewer swings) I still ended up all-in a couple times when I didn't have time to get more chips yet because the line at the cage was too long.

The other solution is to keep chips in your pocket but for some its easier just to buy in for a larger amount.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:02 PM   #5435
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by ParxRegular View Post
I noticed yesterday that some of the people who were involved in the Borgata sport booking crime were playing at Parx. They were banned from all Atlantic City casinos and also recently at Harrah's Chester. I'm not sure if the ban at Harrah's Chester was a casino decision or a Pennsyvlania gaming commision decision. I notice that they either don't have a Parx card and/or never are swiped in the Bravo system. This make me believe that are trying to fly under the radar. Just wanted to alert Parx upper management because I know they occasionally visit this thread.
Quite a statement considering it's your first post. A lot of things you have said are not true. Also, what's it to you if they play there or not? Do you owe them money or something. Mind your business and don't be "that guy".
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:55 AM   #5436
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Thx for the 5/10 info, had a good/interesting first day fri. Just checked in at noon tho' and no game/ no list...hope to get rolling soon
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #5437
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slifdog View Post
I pushed one hand of black Jack and they left the match play ticket for the next deal (as I expected they would).

The double / split scenarios you describe would increase the house edge over the "match play" portion of your bet, but would it seriously compromise the EV of basic strategy Bjack to the point that Roulette with match play becomes the better bet? Interesting, Are you certain of this?- Roulette's house edge is a minimum of 5.26% and perfect basic strategy Bjack's house edge is .59% - I gotta call false here.

Reference:

http://wizardofodds.com/roulette

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack
Some casinos take the match play ticket on a push (for example, I'm 99% sure Foxwoods does). If Parx does not do so, it would certainly justify BJ as a choice for using the MP coupon, especially as there rules are pretty favorable to begin with (late surrender, right?).

I think it comes down to the rules of the casino. Pushes? Does the MP pay 3:2 on a BJ? Can you double and/or split the MP coupon? Etc.

Also the optimal strategy is "murkey" with MP coupons (at least to me). Normally you would double with ace vs ten, but if you can't double your MP, I think it may very well be better NOT to double (that is a gut feeling, I haven't done all the math).
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:45 PM   #5438
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by TheDarkElf View Post
Some casinos take the match play ticket on a push (for example, I'm 99% sure Foxwoods does).
Just to clarify... At Foxwoods, if you use your players card, you keep it on a push. If you use the match play without giving them your card, you lose it on a push.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:42 PM   #5439
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

30/60 HOE on Monday's now as well as Wednesday. Cards are in the air.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #5440
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by beetman View Post
I recently saw one of the worst dealer decisions ever and unfortunately wasn't able to get the floor over to correct it:

Dealer at 4-8 limit was very obviously new (supervisor explained to her that 20 chips fit in each rack slot.) Old guy in 8 seat was having a bit of trouble following the action, nothing unusual for 4-8. Old guy had been betting the whole way and heads up on the river, old guy bet on a board like AQxx3, and 4 seat raised. Old guy tabled his hand, AQ, as soon as seat 4 put chips out, obviously not aware that seat 4 at the opposite end of the table raised, as neither seat 4 nor dealer verbalized the raise.

Rather than say "seat 4 raised," dealer mucked the old guy's tabled hand and began pushing the pot to the other player. Old guy protested and the dealer explained that tabling your hand without calling a raise is considered a fold. (???) I can see applications of that rule in multiway pots involving exposed cards that affect the action, but it was a heads up pot. the old guy made absolutely nothing resembling a mucking motion, and the old guy had a had that nobody would ever fold for one bet in limit.

I was in the 3 seat and didn't understand what was going on first, at first I thought the dealer thought seat 4 didn't have cards until dealer started pushing that guy the pot. The unfortunate part is that all of the other old guys at the table didn't argue on the old guy's behalf, they just tried explaining to him that "turning your cards up without calling a bet is considered a fold." As I realized what was going on, I said, that's not right, call the floor over but by then the old guy had picked up his chips and left. I felt like I was in bizarro world because the consensus at the table was that the dealer understood the rule accurately, and the old guy was at fault for not noticing the raise.
this actually happened to me in vegas in a wsop. althought it was nl, and i thought his hand would be a fold the floor came over and said that exposing the hand before his action is a warning, and his hand is still alive. if he keeps doing it then he gets penalties
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:05 PM   #5441
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

I was just looking over the blind structures for the upcoming tournament series and ive come across something that def needs to be fixed, prob a mistake. Early on the blinds go 300-600, 400-800, 500/1k and 600-1200. This is what it should be obv. But in later stages the 4000-8000 level is skipped. It goes from 3k/6k to 5k/10k and 6k/12k which is pretty bizarre and doesnt make much sense. If ur going to implement the 4/8 level early it should def be used later too, its more important in later stages. The jump from bb6k to bb10k is absurd imo, this needs to be fixed. TY
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:40 PM   #5442
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Question about the rake structure at Parx?
Is is 10% up to 5 in all games? Do they take the BBJ$ at 20? And do they practice no flop no drop? Thx? Also what is the qualifier for the BBJ? Thx
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:55 PM   #5443
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by GrimeRat420 View Post
I was just looking over the blind structures for the upcoming tournament series and ive come across something that def needs to be fixed, prob a mistake. Early on the blinds go 300-600, 400-800, 500/1k and 600-1200. This is what it should be obv. But in later stages the 4000-8000 level is skipped. It goes from 3k/6k to 5k/10k and 6k/12k which is pretty bizarre and doesnt make much sense. If ur going to implement the 4/8 level early it should def be used later too, its more important in later stages. The jump from bb6k to bb10k is absurd imo, this needs to be fixed. TY
Brandon (bnavata) - who's taking the lead on all things tourneys right now said they are adding the 4K-8K level as well as 40K-80K.

They fixed it about 2 weeks ago....but not before the initial sheets went out.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...5&postcount=56
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:04 PM   #5444
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by pk_nuts View Post
Question about the rake structure at Parx?
Is is 10% up to 5 in all games? Do they take the BBJ$ at 20? And do they practice no flop no drop? Thx? Also what is the qualifier for the BBJ? Thx
in the higher limit games they charge time drop....drop depends on how high the blinds are. There is no BBJ. I play mostly time drop games so not sure about the no flop no drop thing.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:07 PM   #5445
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Oh ok ty for the link that clears that up
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:22 PM   #5446
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by pk_nuts View Post
Question about the rake structure at Parx?
Is is 10% up to 5 in all games? Do they take the BBJ$ at 20? And do they practice no flop no drop? Thx? Also what is the qualifier for the BBJ? Thx
I believe it's 10% to 5 in all non-time games. It is no flop no drop.

There is no BBJ.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:22 PM   #5447
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by kingcod View Post
in the higher limit games they charge time drop....drop depends on how high the blinds are. There is no BBJ. I play mostly time drop games so not sure about the no flop no drop thing.
Thanks for the info. I was really wondering what the rake was in 1/2nl, 2/5,nl
15/30lhe and 6/12OE. Also i am planning to come and grind like 10 hours a day for 2 months straight. gonna try to get 500+ hours in a short time and then take off the for a month or so. I am out of town so any advice on the cheepest lodging/room mate plan would be great. If i could find a temporary place for around 800 or 900 a month that would be great.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:24 PM   #5448
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

1-2 and 2-5 are raked. 15-30 is $6/half. I want to say the 6-12 OE is $5/half, but I am not positive. I have no idea about the lodging.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:31 PM   #5449
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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1-2 and 2-5 are raked. 15-30 is $6/half. I want to say the 6-12 OE is $5/half, but I am not positive. I have no idea about the lodging.
Thx a lot. The no BBJ is great. 15 years of live grinding and not even a sniff at the damn thing. Who knoes how many 1000's I have in the little slot to the left of the dealer.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:36 PM   #5450
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Originally Posted by pk_nuts View Post
Thanks for the info. I was really wondering what the rake was in 1/2nl, 2/5,nl
15/30lhe and 6/12OE. Also i am planning to come and grind like 10 hours a day for 2 months straight. gonna try to get 500+ hours in a short time and then take off the for a month or so. I am out of town so any advice on the cheepest lodging/room mate plan would be great. If i could find a temporary place for around 800 or 900 a month that would be great.
If you are staying that long your best bet is to go on craigslist and look for a sublet opportunity in a house or an apartment if you have a car. If not I'd try to find a long term hotel anywhere on the bus route. 250 hours of live poker a month sounds like hell. Especially with no local social life since you're out of town and not staying in Center City. Best of luck to you though. My roomate is about to embark upon a huge grinding spree to since he just moved to Philly.
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