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Old 07-14-2011, 09:37 AM   #5276
BriMc
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Awesome news about the WPT.

And I agree with what Dinesh just said. They all read this thread, there have been several times where things we've talked about on here have just happened cause they were reading it. If what you want isn't happening, its very easy to go to Parx and ask Ari or the Shift Manager who's on at the time if Ari isn't available, they've always been really open and forthcoming with me. Either my suggestion gets implemented or I get told why it won't happen, I haven't always agreed with the answer, but I can always see the logic from their perspective, and never have I gotten an arbitrary, "cause that's just the way it is" type of answer.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:42 PM   #5277
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriMc View Post
Awesome news about the WPT.

And I agree with what Dinesh just said. They all read this thread, there have been several times where things we've talked about on here have just happened cause they were reading it. If what you want isn't happening, its very easy to go to Parx and ask Ari or the Shift Manager who's on at the time if Ari isn't available, they've always been really open and forthcoming with me. Either my suggestion gets implemented or I get told why it won't happen, I haven't always agreed with the answer, but I can always see the logic from their perspective, and never have I gotten an arbitrary, "cause that's just the way it is" type of answer.
I had a floor person tell me the reason why they they dont' make a raise out of turn binding is because they "couldn't make the player put the money in".

I told him he was an idiot. That was pretty much a "that's the way it is" answer.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:54 PM   #5278
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
Ari and Br. do read this thread, as do many of the dealers. IMO there's no need for any sort of 10 minute monthly meeting to rehash all the same **** that they already know about. Not to mention that it is very, very hard to successfully represent all the opinions expressed on here, especially given that half of them are at odds with each other.

If you feel strongly about something, just go talk to the shift supervisor when you're there.
this

They do an awesome job of keeping up with this thread, and actually acting on the suggestions. You guys complained about parking lot security, now theres patrols 24/7. You guys complained about hand sanatizers, now they'ye mounted on the pillars in the room. Even the bathroom attendants seem to be working harder. I think the Parx staff is amazing. I give them an A+.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:21 PM   #5279
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
I had a floor person tell me the reason why they they dont' make a raise out of turn binding is because they "couldn't make the player put the money in".

I told him he was an idiot. That was pretty much a "that's the way it is" answer.
Really, you literally called someone an idiot for giving you an explanation about the (good) rule? Cool guy..
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:05 PM   #5280
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

lol you think that rule is good??? and that explanation is the most idiotic I've heard in a while.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #5281
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
It is NOT "all a part of the game" and many casinos have rules in place to make the action binding. Others at least give warnings.
So you are saying at Parx a bet out of turn is not binding if the action has not changed in front of the out of turn bet??? I only played a few times at Parx but in all the AC casinos an out of turn bet is binding as long as no one changes the action in front of the bet. So if I'm first to act and someone behind me bets $100, I can either check and his $100 bet is binding or I can bet $20 for example and then the out of turn player has all his options open. He can fold, call or raise to any amount (assuming it's NL).
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #5282
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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So you are saying at Parx a bet out of turn is not binding if the action has not changed in front of the out of turn bet??? I only played a few times at Parx but in all the AC casinos an out of turn bet is binding as long as no one changes the action in front of the bet. So if I'm first to act and someone behind me bets $100, I can either check and his $100 bet is binding or I can bet $20 for example and then the out of turn player has all his options open. He can fold, call or raise to any amount (assuming it's NL).
I was there yesterday where an out of turn bet was binding when action did not change in front. I'm 90% sure that this is the standard rule at Parx. As you said, it's basically the same everywhere. A bet is a bet. I'm not sure what someone means when he says "they couldn't make him put the money in". In that case, how do they make anyone to put the money in when they say "call"? I guess both work the same way.

Last edited by layemdown; 07-14-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:36 PM   #5283
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by layemdown View Post
I was there yesterday where an out of turn bet was binding when action did not change in front. I'm 90% sure that this is the standard rule at Parx. As you said, it's basically the same everywhere. A bet is a bet. I'm not sure what someone means when he says "they couldn't make him put the money in". In that case, how do they make anyone to put the money in when they say "call"? I guess both work the same way.
This is NOT the rule at Parx. If the turn card is laid out in a heads up hand and the out of turn player puts out $200, they can do whatever they like after the other person acts. The $200 bet is in effect nullified even if it's still sitting out there after the proper player acts.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:24 PM   #5284
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by layemdown View Post
I was there yesterday where an out of turn bet was binding when action did not change in front. I'm 90% sure that this is the standard rule at Parx. As you said, it's basically the same everywhere. A bet is a bet. I'm not sure what someone means when he says "they couldn't make him put the money in". In that case, how do they make anyone to put the money in when they say "call"? I guess both work the same way.
This is the reason dealers are instructed when a player says "call", that they are to get the money into the middle BEFORE cards are exposed.

With action OOT, if the player puts $ into the pot, or says "all-in" and is told that action is not on them. When action gets back to them, if they do anything other than what they declared OOT, please call the floor so that a warning can be issued. It is not binding because in a non tournament game, if they tell us that they refuse to put the $ into the pot, no one can make them...We can throw the player out if they refuse, but did we get the $$$??? NO. Therefore, we did not enforce the rule.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:21 PM   #5285
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
I had a floor person tell me the reason why they they dont' make a raise out of turn binding is because they "couldn't make the player put the money in".

I told him he was an idiot. That was pretty much a "that's the way it is" answer.
No, he explained to you why they do it the way they do, that's exactly the opposite of waving you off and saying cause that's the way it is, a favorite response from the floor in many places.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:30 PM   #5286
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Originally Posted by bnavata View Post
This is the reason dealers are instructed when a player says "call", that they are to get the money into the middle BEFORE cards are exposed.

With action OOT, if the player puts $ into the pot, or says "all-in" and is told that action is not on them. When action gets back to them, if they do anything other than what they declared OOT, please call the floor so that a warning can be issued. It is not binding because in a non tournament game, if they tell us that they to put the $ into the pot, no one can make them...We can throw the player out if they refuse, but did we get the $$$??? NO. Therefore, we did not enforce the rule.
I'm surprised.

There's not any real "law" at other rooms that enforce a verbal bet out of turn with no change of action in front. As far as the money goes...what are the Borgata/Taj/DP and all the others going to do? Call the cops? Parx/players live with the same variables as other rooms relative to the money..... barring a state law on the subject. (which may exist for all I know) In the end, no room can force a player to put a verbal bet in. Room rules, from my perspective should be designed to protect the integrity and honesty of the game. I suppose why "all in" buttons and "call" buttons are tossed out. I doubt seriously, that many players would refuse to put a bet in that was verbalized or set out when acting OOT.....unless the rule protected out of turn action (Am I missing something here? Does it?). As for players who act OOT for an angle.....well, maybe the room is better off without them. With that said, I'm sure Ari has reasons that extend beyond my understanding. Possibly, if this rule were in effect at Parx, OOT betting would be a "no issue". As I said in my TR, there was a surprising amount of OOT betting at my table yesterday. Enough for me to notice and make a mental note before I read anything posted here. I assumed people didn't understand what they were doing. Maybe some of it was that and some were angle shots.

Last edited by layemdown; 07-14-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:32 PM   #5287
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnavata View Post
This is the reason dealers are instructed when a player says "call", that they are to get the money into the middle BEFORE cards are exposed.

With action OOT, if the player puts $ into the pot, or says "all-in" and is told that action is not on them. When action gets back to them, if they do anything other than what they declared OOT, please call the floor so that a warning can be issued. It is not binding because in a non tournament game, if they tell us that they refuse to put the $ into the pot, no one can make them...We can throw the player out if they refuse, but did we get the $$$??? NO. Therefore, we did not enforce the rule.
I don't like this rule, I never have, I think action OOT should be binding, thats the the way it is in just about every other room and it works well. Do they occasionally have to throw people out for refusing to put the money in? I'm sure they do. But is that any worse of a problem than letting people angle by betting OOT and pulling back when they want to control pot size or get a cheap showdown?

I know I've discussed this in person with both you and Ari, and I was told that if anyone was angling like this they'd get a warning then a 24 hour ban, but in practice people get away with it far to often, and I'd like to renew my objection to this policy again.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:39 PM   #5288
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Regardless of them not being able to "force people to put money in the pot" they most certainly can tell people they cannot put money in the pot, so they should definitely be able to enforce the "check out of turn to induce checks behind, then bet" move by telling the person he or she can't bet. I haven't noticed this to be a huge problem but I have seen it a few times.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:56 PM   #5289
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

I had a dealer refuse to push the pot until I surrendered my cards. He explained it was for the cameras. Is this actually the rule? (Push the pot get the cards is the standard for very good reasons)
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:03 PM   #5290
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Quote:
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I don't like this rule, I never have, I think action OOT should be binding, thats the the way it is in just about every other room and it works well. [...]
in practice people get away with it far to often, and I'd like to renew my objection to this policy again.
I prefer the rule as is, and here is why. OOT actions are much, much more likely to be simple, honest mistakes than angles, by probably 10:1 or more. Unless all the missed action is folding (NOT calling), the situation to the OOT will be significantly different when it is time to act in turn.

Yes, it is incumbent on each player to follow the action, and it is surely the OOT player's fault. But by far the best outcome is for every player to understand the action isn't binding, and to play their hand accordingly. If everyone knows that it's not binding, there is no angle to be had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremen View Post
I had a dealer refuse to push the pot until I surrendered my cards. He explained it was for the cameras. Is this actually the rule? (Push the pot get the cards is the standard for very good reasons)
Unfortunately, yes, it is an idiotic PA rule. The winning cards have to be displayed with the board before the pot gets pushed. Though I think this is mainly a rather conservative interpretation of some vague and ill-written PA regs.

Last edited by dinesh; 07-14-2011 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #5291
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

[QUOTE=dinesh;27617786]
Yes, it is incumbent on each player to follow the action, and it is surely the OOT player's fault. But by far the best outcome is for every player to understand the action isn't binding, and to play their hand accordingly. If everyone knows that it's not binding, there is no angle to be had.

[QUOTE]

I can't dispute your argument assuming everyone understands the rule. Yesterday, if I had a monster and a player verbalized a bet (of any size) OOT, I would have checked to get that bet in and my position action. Today I know better. I wonder if non two plus two players understand that the rule is the rule.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:55 PM   #5292
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

While discussing awful nonstandard rules, is it true that if a hand touches the muck here, it's dead?
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:59 PM   #5293
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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While discussing awful nonstandard rules, is it true that if a hand touches the muck here, it's dead?
I would certainly hope so
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:14 AM   #5294
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Depending on what you're asking... no it is not. Parx does not have a "magic muck".

If the cards are identifiable and retrievable, and if the floor wants to retrieve them, they are live cards.
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:26 AM   #5295
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Depending on what you're asking... no it is not. Parx does not have a "magic muck".

If the cards are identifiable and retrievable, and if the floor wants to retrieve them, they are live cards.
Yeah, this is what i was asking. I was of that stance, but don't know the room rules and several people at my table (including the dealer) were very adamant that in this room, touching the muck = dead/irretrievable hand. (came up because i asked the dealer to muck my opponents hand at showdown, she placed it neatly on top, and I asked her to please actually muck it)
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:17 PM   #5296
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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Goes all the time, as far as in the poker room all cards are the same. The only benefit of bringing another casinos card is going to the casino building first before the card room to get a card made and getting $75 slot/egames credit.
do they still have this promotion? was told last night they don't, but the question wasn't very clear tbh
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:45 PM   #5297
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

Anyone interested in 15/30 OE or 15/30 HOSE/HOE tonight? Interest list has been started. Maybe if there are enough people on the 6/12 OE wait list we can get a 15/30 OE game going.


************
Update from last weekend

Stud did not go last Friday night (I don't think). Maybe Ari has a plan on how to canibalize the AC stud croud late summer/early fall as the AC poker scene slows a little bit.

We got a decent 15/30 HOE game going though Saturday night for at least 3-4 hours.




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I had this in the mixed game thread, but will move it over here and update it with the Stud interest:

Mixed Game and Non-holdem Game List

Wednesday 30-60 HOE/HOSE - has run 6 straight weeks now, starting in the afternoon

Friday (7/9/2011) - 8-10 PM Stud Hi (10/20/30/30 or 15/30)
Definite - pipes, rubixxcue.
Maybe - ??? [add your name] I might be able to make it for a few hours.

Saturday (7/10/2001) - How about an attempt to get 8/16 S8b, or HOSE, or OE going around 8-9 pm. I'll play any of those.

Frequently
6/12 OE
1/3 PLO

Infrequently
4/8 O8b
2/5 PLO
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:18 AM   #5298
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

How many runners do you guys think will turn out for the $200 +30 deep stack turbo tourney during the poker open? thinking of coming over from long island for it
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Old 07-16-2011, 03:10 AM   #5299
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How many runners do you guys think will turn out for the $200 +30 deep stack turbo tourney during the poker open? thinking of coming over from long island for it
If you are looking for a good tourney tomorrow might and you're coming from long island might as well go to Borgata and play the $350+$50 100k guaranteed at 11am. Should get 700+ runners.
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Old 07-16-2011, 04:59 AM   #5300
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Re: PARX Poker Thread -- FAQ updated 2011.06.21

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If you are looking for a good tourney tomorrow might and you're coming from long island might as well go to Borgata and play the $350+$50 100k guaranteed at 11am. Should get 700+ runners.
I think he was referring to the Parx Open. I have no idea how many players it will get, as they are at noon on non-peak days. I would guess 200-300, but that is a pretty wild guess.
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