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Old 02-20-2011, 11:40 AM   #3526
layemdown
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by pipes View Post
Not sure, but earlier in this thread someone posted a list of approved games and single draw 2-7 was on there.

Not sure if Ari would spread it and not sure how good of a game it would be actually. You would need antes to get any type of action going imo. If you played it 1/2, think you would need a button ante of $2 or something.
1/2 NL 2-7 SD is played much like 1/2 NL holdem except one less betting round.

Button/blind game- no ante

First Betting Round -after all players receive five cards

The Draw

Player has the option to draw 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 cards, or to draw zero cards and "stand pat". . Once all cards have been dealt out, there is another betting round.

Second Betting Round

The second betting round starts with the first player to the left of the button. He/she can either check or bet.

Nuts are 2, 3 ,4 ,5 7 with at least one off suit (straight's and flushes are bad)

Aces high and not low

Showdown lot's of bluffs. lot's of action when players get experience. Kind of nitty when the entire table doesn 't know what they are doing. New players are easily moved off decent SD hands.

Delears don't like the game much as they can't get many hands out. The room suffers too because less hands equal less rake.

2-7 TD is played as a limit game like Badugi. SD is no limit

Last edited by layemdown; 02-20-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:51 PM   #3527
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Made my first trip to Parx last night; arrived at around 7:00 and stayed until about 12:30 am or so. Nice room; smoke not an issue other than the Room seemed to be pretty lax about enforcing the no smoking in the bathroom rule.

Staff was great - first time in a long time where the folks behind the desk actually looked up and said hello before I said anything.

Dealers - all the dealers that were at my 1/2 table were good and competent and most were very friendly.

All in all, a good time and a nice room.
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:59 PM   #3528
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by layemdown View Post
1/2 NL 2-7 SD is played much like 1/2 NL holdem except one less betting round.

Button/blind game- no ante

First Betting Round -after all players receive five cards

The Draw

Player has the option to draw 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 cards, or to draw zero cards and "stand pat". . Once all cards have been dealt out, there is another betting round.

Second Betting Round

The second betting round starts with the first player to the left of the button. He/she can either check or bet.

Nuts are 2, 3 ,4 ,5 7 with at least one off suit (straight's and flushes are bad)

Aces high and not low

Showdown lot's of bluffs. lot's of action when players get experience. Kind of nitty when the entire table doesn 't know what they are doing. New players are easily moved off decent SD hands.

Delears don't like the game much as they can't get many hands out. The room suffers too because less hands equal less rake.

2-7 TD is played as a limit game like Badugi. SD is no limit
It's two less betting rounds than hold'em.

It's a blind game, but think you need antes to stimulate action. If you are playing 1/2 I think a button ante of $2 would be good for 5-7 players, $1 for 4 or less.

I agree it's nitty with inexperienced people. Dealers might not like it because they are dealing out 5 cards to each person and there might be too many walks or raise and take its.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:02 PM   #3529
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Pippen33 View Post
Really?


1) $100 + 20 is industry standard.

2) Are people hoping for something like $65 tourneys ($50 + $15)?
1) This is not correct.

- Except for the "trendy" rooms in Vegas, most all have daily tournies that run all 7 days/week in the $20-$100 range, most falling in the $40-$80 range.

- Most of AC's (except the trendy one) rooms have weekday daily tournies in the $40-$65 range.

2) Yes, I would prefer $50 + $5 or $10 though.

[edit]....maybe $50+$5+$5 dealer. Maybe make the dealer drop optional for extra starting chips? Then everyone is happy.

Last edited by JONATHANM; 02-20-2011 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:54 PM   #3530
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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1) This is not correct.

- Except for the "trendy" rooms in Vegas, most all have daily tournies that run all 7 days/week in the $20-$100 range, most falling in the $40-$80 range.

- Most of AC's (except the trendy one) rooms have weekday daily tournies in the $40-$65 range.

2) Yes, I would prefer $50 + $5 or $10 though.

[edit]....maybe $50+$5+$5 dealer. Maybe make the dealer drop optional for extra starting chips? Then everyone is happy.
yeah, most rooms in vegas have small dailies. For the most part, theyre pretty terrible values, with awful structures and 30% rake.

you will not find anything even close to a 50+10 or a 50+5+5 (let alone a 50+5) in vegas. 50+15+5 is much more likely

Last edited by AEPpoker; 02-20-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:15 PM   #3531
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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yeah, most rooms in vegas have small dailies. For the most part, theyre pretty terrible values, with awful structures and 30% rake.

you will not find anything even close to a 50+10 or a 50+5+5 in vegas. 50+15+5 is much more likely

This can be considered by some as the down side. Also field sizes are small. Don't give any ideas!!

We also need to consider Vegas is a completely different market/demographic.

What the market will bear. I think this area/room will thrive eventually with a mid-day $40-$80 range + an evening $100-$200 range. This I look forward to.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:17 PM   #3532
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Qualify for the freeroll April 1st to April 30th.

60-79 hours 10k in chips
80-99 hours 12k in chips
100+ hours 15k in chips


Not too shabby for a 50k freeroll. I haven't played at Parx yet but I might have to make it my home in April. A couple of questions for you Parx regs:

- Compared to Harrah's Chester, what is the level of play at 1/2 and 2/5?

- What week nights seem to have the highest # of casual players?

- On an average 1/2 table during the week, how many players on average per table are A. Very good B. Average C. Casual players?

- Same question as above ^ except on the weekends

- On an average 1/2 tabke, how many callers would you get (on average) if you were on the button & had 5 limpers before you , you raise to $12?

I know I'm asking a lot and I know I should see for myself, and I will but I'm just trying to get a general idea of what the room and level of play is like before I go there. I've played 1/2 at Harrah's Chester and typically find the tables relatively loose and usually plenty of action.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #3533
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Not too shabby for a 50k freeroll. I haven't played at Parx yet but I might have to make it my home in April. A couple of questions for you Parx regs:
You will enjoy the 60+ hours..it is a nice room.


As for the play..Ranges from ROCK- NIT-TAG----> OOBERLAG, depending on game,limit, and players. You can search the thread, you might get a bit of a feel with some previous posts for specifics.

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Old 02-20-2011, 04:04 PM   #3534
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by JONATHANM View Post
This can be considered by some as the down side. Also field sizes are small. Don't give any ideas!!

We also need to consider Vegas is a completely different market/demographic.

What the market will bear. I think this area/room will thrive eventually with a mid-day $40-$80 range + an evening $100-$200 range. This I look forward to.
Tournaments under $100 are typically both loss leaders for the casino and terrible values for the player. The are only useful at attracting the low-common denominator players to the room, and Parx, by declining to spread 2/4 LHE, has already shown that they aren't really interested in these potential customers. I don't understand why a player willing to put up several $200 buy-ins a night at 1/2 would balk at playing a $175 tournament. I hope that Parx will follow the Borgata route in spreading weekday tournaments around $100+20, with a couple tournaments a week in the $200-$500 range.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:45 PM   #3535
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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I don't understand why a player willing to put up several $200 buy-ins a night at 1/2 would balk at playing a $175 tournament. .
Simple. I can come in 5th, or 9th, or 20th over the evening at the cash game and end up in the black.

The same is not true for a tourney. It's all or nothing, top 10% or busto- you can't change tables, you can't get out if conditions get bad, etc.

While I agree that the $1/2 player is probably being a bit tight about the tourney buy-in, I don't see them as apples and apples.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:26 PM   #3536
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Lottery Larry View Post
Simple. I can come in 5th, or 9th, or 20th over the evening at the cash game and end up in the black.

The same is not true for a tourney. It's all or nothing, top 10% or busto- you can't change tables, you can't get out if conditions get bad, etc.

While I agree that the $1/2 player is probably being a bit tight about the tourney buy-in, I don't see them as apples and apples.
In lower buy in tourneys, say $50+$10 you can buy in 5 times, so you'll have 5 shots at cashing for essentially a full $300 buy in at $1/$2. 1 cash in a 180 man tourney and you're WAY ahead.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:30 PM   #3537
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

6/12 OE currently running......awesome
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:03 PM   #3538
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Tournaments under $100 are typically both loss leaders for the casino and terrible values for the player.
This I'm not so sure.. Per my previous posts, I expect traffic to the room will increase exponentially after adding tournaments to the daily spread. I remember, not long ago, Taj would have 150+ in their $65 Nooner. With Parx's popularity (along with their goal of becoming an east coast leader), I would expect a 200+ player turn out on average, consistently.

Example* : $80..12pm + $150 7pm daily. Bump the buyins up during weekend play accordingly.


$60+$15+$5

$60*200p = $12k pool (possibly hovering around $9k consistently, averaging 150p/T long term imo)
$15*200p = $3k rake (possibly hovering around $2.2k consistently, averaging 150p/T long term imo)
$5*200p = $1k dealer drop (over and above what deep runners will most likely offer)

+

$125+$20+$5 7pm

$125*200p = $25k pool ( possibly hovering around $19k consistently, averaging 150p/T long term imo)
$20*200p = $4k rake ( possibly hovering around $3k consistently, averaging 150p/T long term imo)
$5*200p = $1k dealer drop (over and above what deep runners will most likely offer)

That would be $5k/day, $35k/week, $140k/mth, $1.8M in tournament drop per year. Pretty profitable. These #'s are speculatively averaged of course, but achievable imo.

Also, a $10k for $80, and a $20k for$150 <<< That isn't value for a player? 6 Hours = 4K for $80 ($666/hr) , or $8-9k for $150 $1.5k/hr).

* This example is a speculative best case scenario, and IMHO. I think a blueprint like this is sustainable when speaking about Parx's long term future. However, the evening event may be a little more fragile. Say 2-3 nights/wk...maybe a Guarantee of some sort?

Last edited by JONATHANM; 02-20-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:24 PM   #3539
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The same is not true for a tourney. It's all or nothing, top 10% or busto- you can't change tables, you can't get out if conditions get bad, etc.

.
To each his own Master.

I like cash and tourney play. With obvious variance involved in a tournament, I would think a lot of serious tournament players would want volume. The lower the acceptable daily BI, the higher the possible volume.

Whether the room will be able to support a lot of $150+ tournies, or a ton of <$100 tournaments will take off, or a solid mix of both... the idea of a <$100 daily should not be taken off the table IMHO. Stay tuned


[edit] I'll be tight..I would absolutely be tight if I could spend $160-$320/week (2-4 @ $80) for $20k-$40k+ worth of weekly prize pool.

......Also , regarding tourny BI's, I think having a player visit 2-4 times weekly rather than 1 time weekly is good for the room in the long run..... right?

Last edited by Rapini; 02-21-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:51 PM   #3540
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

I'm sorry tourneys under $100 have such terrible juice and the opportunity cost of not playing even the lowest stakes cash makes it not worth it to play tiny tourneys. This is assuming you win at lowest stakes cash.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:57 PM   #3541
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

No "serious tournament player" would ever play in a $50+15 live tournament no matter what volume they can play....the rake is too high and the buy-in too low. From the standpoint of the serious player, these tournaments just drive the fish away from the cash games without providing any benefit in return.

And if Parx wants to be an "east coast leader", they should look at whatever the Taj has been doing and do the opposite. That room has been getting crushed by Borgata (and Parx!) precisely because they have been catering to low-lifes rather tha serious players and higher class customers.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:13 PM   #3542
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

went back to parx yesterday, been 4 times now. great room, well run, only got carded once this time

1/2 games are super-soft, what more can you ask for!
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:59 PM   #3543
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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No "serious tournament player" would ever play in a $50+15 live tournament no matter what volume they can play....the rake is too high and the buy-in too low. From the standpoint of the serious player, these tournaments just drive the fish away from the cash games without providing any benefit in return.

And if Parx wants to be an "east coast leader", they should look at whatever the Taj has been doing and do the opposite. That room has been getting crushed by Borgata (and Parx!) precisely because they have been catering to low-lifes rather tha serious players and higher class customers.
ok, i didnt want to be the first one to say this but MM makes kind of a similar point in one of his books -- ie small buyin tournaments attract a lower class crowd.

Im not one for high tea and scones, but low class in philly is pretty low and pretty good at public transportation (i grew up at red lion and the blvd, so i kind of know where parx is even though ive never been there.)... giving them a reason to hang out in the poker room benefits no one.

Also +1 about serious tournament players not playing a 60+20 or 50+15 or whatever
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:59 PM   #3544
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

An interesting hand occurred soon after I sat down Saturday night for a 1/2 session.

Seat 5 won a decent hand busting Seat 9 with Queens full vs. Trips. Pot was ~$250. The hand is over. The Dealer helps Seat 9 call the chip runner.

As the Dealer is preparing the next hand after swapping decks in the shuffler, she discovered that a card from the other deck was mixed in with the current deck. I didn't see the exact card mix up, but it was believed that the prior hand was played with an extra card from the other deck. Seat 9 began to get reasonably upset and the floor was called.

There was some back and forth banter and a few floor people ultimately deemed the previously hand void due to an invalid deck and tried to re-enact the hand live which was a joke. Then they were forced to go to surveillance. The table eventually broke due to the length of time it was taking to watch videos.

Seat 5 was forced to refund Seat 9 $100. I do not believe anyone else was refunded, including the blinds.

I don't know if I was surprised at the ruling. A dead hand is a dead hand i guess, but to make him refund the winnings from the hand just didn't feel right. Certainly Seat 9 didn't deserve to lose their stack with a bad deck either by the Dealer of the shuffler malfunction. I wouldn't think twice about it if the error was discovered during or at the end of the hand.

I was mostly disappointed at the staff's handling of the situation. The dealer had called a few floor people for help and they spent the next few minutes seating new players before finally coming to help. I hung with the table another 15-20 minutes before a few of us decided to find another table but were met with a bit of an attitude about leaving the table even with complaining about the length of time it was taking.

I found an adjacent table and about 10-15 minutes later I saw the "settlement". The winner was made to give the loser $100, then he cashed out and left. I doubt he'll be back. Then again, we're all degenerate gamblers and Parx is convenient. He'll probably be back.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:02 PM   #3545
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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An interesting hand occurred soon after I sat down Saturday night for a 1/2 session.

Seat 5 won a decent hand busting Seat 9 with Queens full vs. Trips. Pot was ~$250. The hand is over. The Dealer helps Seat 9 call the chip runner.

As the Dealer is preparing the next hand after swapping decks in the shuffler, she discovered that a card from the other deck was mixed in with the current deck. I didn't see the exact card mix up, but it was believed that the prior hand was played with an extra card from the other deck. Seat 9 began to get reasonably upset and the floor was called.

There was some back and forth banter and a few floor people ultimately deemed the previously hand void due to an invalid deck and tried to re-enact the hand live which was a joke. Then they were forced to go to surveillance. The table eventually broke due to the length of time it was taking to watch videos.

Seat 5 was forced to refund Seat 9 $100. I do not believe anyone else was refunded, including the blinds.

I don't know if I was surprised at the ruling. A dead hand is a dead hand i guess, but to make him refund the winnings from the hand just didn't feel right. Certainly Seat 9 didn't deserve to lose their stack with a bad deck either by the Dealer of the shuffler malfunction. I wouldn't think twice about it if the error was discovered during or at the end of the hand.

I was mostly disappointed at the staff's handling of the situation. The dealer had called a few floor people for help and they spent the next few minutes seating new players before finally coming to help. I hung with the table another 15-20 minutes before a few of us decided to find another table but were met with a bit of an attitude about leaving the table even with complaining about the length of time it was taking.

I found an adjacent table and about 10-15 minutes later I saw the "settlement". The winner was made to give the loser $100, then he cashed out and left. I doubt he'll be back. Then again, we're all degenerate gamblers and Parx is convenient. He'll probably be back.

thats a pretty terrible ruling. Discovering a foreign card in the deck does typically invalidate all the action during the hand itself, but once the pot is pushed its kind of no take-backsies (unless obviously there was some kind of cheating going on, which doesnt sound like it was the case)
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:06 PM   #3546
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by mixn123 View Post
An interesting hand occurred soon after I sat down Saturday night for a 1/2 session.

Seat 5 won a decent hand busting Seat 9 with Queens full vs. Trips. Pot was ~$250. The hand is over. The Dealer helps Seat 9 call the chip runner.

As the Dealer is preparing the next hand after swapping decks in the shuffler, she discovered that a card from the other deck was mixed in with the current deck. I didn't see the exact card mix up, but it was believed that the prior hand was played with an extra card from the other deck. Seat 9 began to get reasonably upset and the floor was called.

There was some back and forth banter and a few floor people ultimately deemed the previously hand void due to an invalid deck and tried to re-enact the hand live which was a joke. Then they were forced to go to surveillance. The table eventually broke due to the length of time it was taking to watch videos.

Seat 5 was forced to refund Seat 9 $100. I do not believe anyone else was refunded, including the blinds.

I don't know if I was surprised at the ruling. A dead hand is a dead hand i guess, but to make him refund the winnings from the hand just didn't feel right. Certainly Seat 9 didn't deserve to lose their stack with a bad deck either by the Dealer of the shuffler malfunction. I wouldn't think twice about it if the error was discovered during or at the end of the hand.

I was mostly disappointed at the staff's handling of the situation. The dealer had called a few floor people for help and they spent the next few minutes seating new players before finally coming to help. I hung with the table another 15-20 minutes before a few of us decided to find another table but were met with a bit of an attitude about leaving the table even with complaining about the length of time it was taking.

I found an adjacent table and about 10-15 minutes later I saw the "settlement". The winner was made to give the loser $100, then he cashed out and left. I doubt he'll be back. Then again, we're all degenerate gamblers and Parx is convenient. He'll probably be back.
Was the button on the shuffler green when she pulled up the deck for the next hand? If so I do not see how this is possible considering the shufflers count the cards and turn red if not 52 cards.

How exactly was this wrong colored card discovered in the new deck?
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:08 PM   #3547
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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thats a pretty terrible ruling. Discovering a foreign card in the deck does typically invalidate all the action during the hand itself, but once the pot is pushed its kind of no take-backsies (unless obviously there was some kind of cheating going on, which doesnt sound like it was the case)
i agree. staff's mistake. casino should have given 9 his money.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:44 PM   #3548
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixn123 View Post
An interesting hand occurred soon after I sat down Saturday night for a 1/2 session.

Seat 5 won a decent hand busting Seat 9 with Queens full vs. Trips. Pot was ~$250. The hand is over. The Dealer helps Seat 9 call the chip runner.

As the Dealer is preparing the next hand after swapping decks in the shuffler, she discovered that a card from the other deck was mixed in with the current deck. I didn't see the exact card mix up, but it was believed that the prior hand was played with an extra card from the other deck. Seat 9 began to get reasonably upset and the floor was called.

There was some back and forth banter and a few floor people ultimately deemed the previously hand void due to an invalid deck and tried to re-enact the hand live which was a joke. Then they were forced to go to surveillance. The table eventually broke due to the length of time it was taking to watch videos.

Seat 5 was forced to refund Seat 9 $100. I do not believe anyone else was refunded, including the blinds.

I don't know if I was surprised at the ruling. A dead hand is a dead hand i guess, but to make him refund the winnings from the hand just didn't feel right. Certainly Seat 9 didn't deserve to lose their stack with a bad deck either by the Dealer of the shuffler malfunction. I wouldn't think twice about it if the error was discovered during or at the end of the hand.

I was mostly disappointed at the staff's handling of the situation. The dealer had called a few floor people for help and they spent the next few minutes seating new players before finally coming to help. I hung with the table another 15-20 minutes before a few of us decided to find another table but were met with a bit of an attitude about leaving the table even with complaining about the length of time it was taking.

I found an adjacent table and about 10-15 minutes later I saw the "settlement". The winner was made to give the loser $100, then he cashed out and left. I doubt he'll be back. Then again, we're all degenerate gamblers and Parx is convenient. He'll probably be back.
The "winner" cashed out and left? If he's so Ps'd that he doesn't come back, good. He doesn't have any right to be mad.

The pot was $250 so at most the "loser" had $125 of his money in there. He got $100 back. I like the ruling and I'd be fine if I was the person on either side of it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:02 AM   #3549
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

How could it possibly make a difference in the outcome of the hand, given that the two decks are different colors, unless the extra card was either dealt to a player/board/burn?

Bad floor ruling, imo.

In any case, it's the house's mistake, they should foot the bill. The casino makes enough money; no reason to piss off your customers over a relatively small sum of money. . . .
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:19 AM   #3550
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falker11 View Post
Was the button on the shuffler green when she pulled up the deck for the next hand? If so I do not see how this is possible considering the shufflers count the cards and turn red if not 52 cards.

How exactly was this wrong colored card discovered in the new deck?
I'm not precisely sure. She (the dealer) recognized something astray when she opened the shuffler door.

Then I saw her spread the deck she was holding and there was a card in the middle of it from the other deck.
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