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Old 01-19-2011, 10:30 AM   #3051
MacGuyV
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Phaedrus29 View Post
Surprising there's no LHE game tonight...especially after you advertise being there.
Yah I know. Was trying to goad you up there obv.

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Old 01-19-2011, 01:26 PM   #3052
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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There has been a trend of players recently at the 2-5nl that have been trying to sit down with more than the table max buy in (I witnessed 3 players with in the span of 2 sessions try to sit in for 2-4k). I think we need to speak up when this happens. It bothers me that the majority of players don't think it's such a big deal when they buy in very deep. The people doing this know that it is wrong. It kinda gives it away when they try to hide the black chips behind the green chips. The dealers should also be observant enough to take notice and action.

yeah it's sort of awkward for a player to say it...dealers should be aware. I would point it out to a dealer if it bothers you. the more money people put on the better though, imo. you are only playing your stack even if they put on $100,000. so they have no advantage over you by buying in for more. The only way they could is if you built ur stack up to $2,000 and they just sat to your left and bought in for $2,000 or something. If they sat to my right I'd be happy though and stay quiet.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:00 PM   #3053
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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There has been a trend of players recently at the 2-5nl that have been trying to sit down with more than the table max buy in (I witnessed 3 players with in the span of 2 sessions try to sit in for 2-4k). I think we need to speak up when this happens. It bothers me that the majority of players don't think it's such a big deal when they buy in very deep. The people doing this know that it is wrong. It kinda gives it away when they try to hide the black chips behind the green chips. The dealers should also be observant enough to take notice and action.
You should only care if it's a good player and there's a fish at the table sitting above table max.

The only other scenario I can think of is if the new player is very much better than you, sits on your left, and you're already above table max yourself.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:58 PM   #3054
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by BeakWetter View Post
Absolutely. Parx is the only place on the East coast that spreads it, why would you forfeit your best differentiator. Same with 8-16.
These games may not go every day and people look at that as a real bummer because Borg runs the 20 every day. However, we must realize that Parx simply does not have the same Foot traffic as the Borg and won't ever... so regardless of the exact limit, it will be tough to get a game going all day every day. The fact that it (8, 15, 30) is a different game than its AC competitors HELPS Parx tremendously.
Ive noticed a couple rooms in PA running 30/60 Hose. I was at Pocono Downs last night and they had two 30/60 hose games going. One of them was a must move. I was there for the Tourny but was playing next to the 30/60
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:02 PM   #3055
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Is there any chance of getting a 25-50 LHE game since 30-60 seems like it has trouble running? Also last time I was there I over heard the players talking about how upset the floor got after they heard a 20-40 game was spread. I enjoy playing any limit but I think Ari and Parx could do a number on the Borgata 20-40 and 40-80.
Is there a LHE game with less action than 25-50? I would hope parx never even thinks about trying to spread that game. Why would anyone play that
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:05 PM   #3056
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Ari,

When you get a chance can you give us a tourney update? Will they be spread daily like the Borgata? I think I'll mainly be a tourney player so I'm very interested. I work most weekends when the cash games are hoppin so I'll throw my lot in with a bi-weekly tourney entry.

Thanks for all your hard work. I was in the room last week and it looks great.

Danny
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:12 PM   #3057
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by kirbymontor View Post
Is there any chance of getting a 25-50 LHE game since 30-60 seems like it has trouble running? Also last time I was there I over heard the players talking about how upset the floor got after they heard a 20-40 game was spread. I enjoy playing any limit but I think Ari and Parx could do a number on the Borgata 20-40 and 40-80.
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus29 View Post
I don't think we should give up just yet on 15-30 and 30-60 long term. It's unrealistic to think 30-60 will go every day, but I think we could get a normal game going on either Friday or Saturday night to start.

Well, what works better for people interested in the 30-60 game? Anyone interested for this weekend...which day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeakWetter View Post
Absolutely. Parx is the only place on the East coast that spreads it, why would you forfeit your best differentiator. Same with 8-16.
These games may not go every day and people look at that as a real bummer because Borg runs the 20 every day. However, we must realize that Parx simply does not have the same Foot traffic as the Borg and won't ever... so regardless of the exact limit, it will be tough to get a game going all day every day. The fact that it (8, 15, 30) is a different game than its AC competitors HELPS Parx tremendously.
$10 chips would be helpful for 30. Is that going to be a super long process? WTF do you buy in for in the 30 in the meantime? Are green chips frowned upon?
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:28 PM   #3058
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by MacGuyV View Post
$10 chips would be helpful for 30. Is that going to be a super long process? WTF do you buy in for in the 30 in the meantime? Are green chips frowned upon?
Good question and it would certainly make things run more smoothly next time if everyone buys in (at least roughly) equal NUMBER OF CHIPS red and green (until we get $10 chips obv).

For instance, for a $1200 buy-in it is best to do two stacks green and two stacks red. That way, the betting is always 2-chip/4-chip...one of each color on the early streets (25+5) and two of each color on the later streets (25+25+5+5). This would really help speed things up.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:31 PM   #3059
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by georgejoseph View Post
Ive noticed a couple rooms in PA running 30/60 Hose. I was at Pocono Downs last night and they had two 30/60 hose games going. One of them was a must move. I was there for the Tourny but was playing next to the 30/60
I call BS, but thanks for advertising Pocono Downs on this thread. Are the dealers there all superhot bikini-clad models?
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:14 PM   #3060
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Phaedrus29 View Post
I call BS, but thanks for advertising Pocono Downs on this thread. Are the dealers there all superhot bikini-clad models?
No B.S. there were 2 30/60 games and I apologize if I violated protocol. My intentions were not to promote another PA casino just to let people know that 30/60 is played elsewhere other than Parx and AC.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:49 PM   #3061
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by georgejoseph View Post
No B.S. there were 2 30/60 games and I apologize if I violated protocol. My intentions were not to promote another PA casino just to let people know that 30/60 is played elsewhere other than Parx and AC.
I'll stick up for you george; I was there at pocono downs and there were two 30/60 HOSE's games going.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:18 AM   #3062
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Gene Fish View Post
so they have no advantage over you by buying in for more.
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Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post

The only other scenario I can think of is if the new player is very much better than you, sits on your left, and you're already above table max yourself.
Angling maybe?

Your at 3k after grinding a 6 hour session. Angler sits, hiding a dirty 3k black stack ( w/ purples),or just a 2k black stack behind his 2 stacks of green. Villain is there for an orbit (including a dealer change). You and villain get tangled in a hand where he pushes your $150 bet on the flop. You snap call w/ your flopped set thinking he has just short of 1k and lose to his flopped straight....oops...he has 3900, not 900....insta-felted.

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Old 01-20-2011, 02:30 AM   #3063
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by JONATHANM View Post
Angling maybe?

Your at 3k after grinding a 6 hour session. Angler sits, hiding a dirty 3k black stack ( w/ purples),or just a 2k black stack behind his 2 stacks of green. Villain is there for an orbit (including a dealer change). You and villain get tangled in a hand where he pushes your $150 bet on the flop. You snap call w/ your flopped set thinking he has just short of 1k and lose to his flopped straight....oops...he has 3900, not 900....insta-felted.
Seriously, I'd def call out someone for sitting with 2-3K or whatever.

I want to play 1-2-5 PLO....nope, against the rules. Someone wants to sit with 2K...nope, drop down to 1K bro.

I don't care if the table says....ehhh, what the heck.....We can't all vote the $5 bring in to the PLO game so you're gonna have to make 1K work

"Rules are Rules"
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:48 AM   #3064
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Seriously, I'd def call out someone for sitting with 2-3K or whatever.

I want to play 1-2-5 PLO....nope, against the rules. Someone wants to sit with 2K...nope, drop down to 1K bro.

I don't care if the table says....ehhh, what the heck.....We can't all vote the $5 bring in to the PLO game so you're gonna have to make 1K work

"Rules are Rules"
Agreed. I would say something as well. I was just giving an example of another reason one should be worried about tabling over max. Especially if they are trying to hide chips behind. The OP mentioned instances where the villains were trying to hide the chips. Which would tell me they could have possibly been trying to angle.

I was just giving an example that it is possible to miss someone that's trying something shady like that. If he is able to sit in, the 1st dealer misses, or just doesn't say anything, there's a dealer change, the second dealer doesn't know for sure what he sat with. Then it might be 2 late. Scam successful.

I definitely think people should speak up. To prevent this kind of thing from happening.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:23 AM   #3065
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

The people trying to sit with 2-4k knew what their intentions were. One came from a 5-10 and two came from 10-25nl. Their main game broke and u can see the winners go to the cage and the stuck ones go towards the 2-5 tables. They know exactly what they are trying to do and yes I did call them out all three times. Twice I didn't see their stack and one time I came back from the bathroom and noticed a huge stack to my right. I said "what'd I miss?" the table didn't say anything so I asked the dealer and said he was a new player. Lol. I feel that the dealers are very oblivious to these things and or have no authoritative voice (but that's a whole different topic). Notice how much cussing and swearing happens at the table wo it going noticed?? I'm no saint myself and can tolerate cussing but I don't want to feel like I'm at the Taj that's all.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:04 AM   #3066
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by Pippen33 View Post
Seriously, I'd def call out someone for sitting with 2-3K or whatever.

I want to play 1-2-5 PLO....nope, against the rules. Someone wants to sit with 2K...nope, drop down to 1K bro.

I don't care if the table says....ehhh, what the heck.....We can't all vote the $5 bring in to the PLO game so you're gonna have to make 1K work

"Rules are Rules"

I tend to frequently see either a 2/5 player or a 1/2 table hopper move to my 1/2 table with more than $300. I have no issues whatsoever to call them out.

I certainly do it in a considerate and non-confrontational manner unless it's blatantly obvious they're trying to angle by hiding green/blacks in there. It happens more than it should and dealers need to be more cognizant of it.

Even if they're a total fish and I want them to have as much cash in front of them as possible, a rule is a rule. Follow it.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:21 AM   #3067
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Assuming you guys are better players than the guys bringing over chips -- and seriously, this should be the case 95% of the time at 2/5NL and 110% of the time at 1/2NL -- you're definitely acting against your own best interests.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:34 PM   #3068
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

So who is in for 2/5 HA tomorrow night? So far there are 3 definites and a few possibles. Please respond to the roll call in this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...nights-957443/
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:25 PM   #3069
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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No B.S. there were 2 30/60 games and I apologize if I violated protocol. My intentions were not to promote another PA casino just to let people know that 30/60 is played elsewhere other than Parx and AC.
Is there a set day and times the game usually runs? Phaedrus and I might have to take a roadtrip
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:21 PM   #3070
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by cl0r0x70 View Post
Assuming you guys are better players than the guys bringing over chips -- and seriously, this should be the case 95% of the time at 2/5NL and 110% of the time at 1/2NL -- you're definitely acting against your own best interests.
Being a better player doesn't dimiss the fact that the player bringing the chips can spike a 4 outer on you felting u for 3k you've been grinding 6 hrs for, like JonathanM said. IMHO, the consistency/amount of times player "x" brings more than the table max doesn't equal profitability with player "x" generally coming from a higher nl game that broke, as I posted, where deep stack play is more prevalent. Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't enough "weak" players buying in for more than table max for it to be super profitable.

Last edited by SolidFish; 01-20-2011 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:15 PM   #3071
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Being a better player doesn't dimiss the fact that the player bringing the chips can spike a 4 outer on you felting u for 3k you've been grinding 6 hrs for, like JonathanM said. IMHO, the consistency/amount of times player "x" brings more than the table max doesn't equal profitability with player "x" generally coming from a higher nl game that broke, as I posted, where deep stack play is more prevalent. Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't enough "weak" players buying in for more than table max for it to be super profitable.
I can understand wanting to lock up a win, but if you're ever uncomfortable with putting the amount in front of you in play, it's time to pick up. If someone wants to get 3k in the middle drawing to a 4 outer, great. Sometimes they hit, but that's part of the game.

As to the steaming, stuck players coming over from bigger broken games. . . that's fine too. These guys are not exactly on their "A" game, even if they happen to be decent players (hint: they usually aren't.)

As to hidden chips: it's casino policy pretty much everywhere that big chips need to be visible at all times. Ari has also pulled the purple chips from the 2/5NL game (great job, btw!) However, to protect yourself from nasty surprises and bad floor rulings, you should routinely ask questions like "do you have any big chips" and "how much are you playing" during hands and before big decisions.

I personally never sit down with more than the table max. However, 99% of the time I'm not going to object to people who do except during somewhat unusual circumstances, a few of which I outlined before. I'll be a table cop over all kinds of things, but generally not something like that where being a rules nit will cost me money.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:11 PM   #3072
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

If a 5/10 reg drops down and comes in deep it ruins my pre flop fold equity when I'm trying to get HU or short handed with fish. I always buy in for the max at 2/5 and I have only called someone on overbuying once. He came in deep, I was better than him, but I didn't want him to cover the deep fish and potentially bust the fish so I made him take chips off.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:16 PM   #3073
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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You should only care if it's a good player and there's a fish at the table sitting above table max.

The only other scenario I can think of is if the new player is very much better than you, sits on your left, and you're already above table max yourself.
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If a 5/10 reg drops down and comes in deep it ruins my pre flop fold equity when I'm trying to get HU or short handed with fish. I always buy in for the max at 2/5 and I have only called someone on overbuying once. He came in deep, I was better than him, but I didn't want him to cover the deep fish and potentially bust the fish so I made him take chips off.
I already addressed this as one of the few times you should care. I admit there are a few other circumstances as well.

However, I feel that most of the people who are playing "stack police" are doing so for one of two reasons, neither of which are good for their personal equity or good for the game:

1) It's a rule. Nothing wrong with this, except that there's no deeper thought put into the situation. It can frequently be advantageous to allow more money on the table. Furthermore, tables with an atmosphere of nitty rule mongers are antithetical to gambling and fun. When possible, you should let things slide unless they're hurting you or a fish (protecting fish is a priority, especially from anglers; they are your customers after all.)
2) Big stacks have an advantage over short stacks. This is one of the biggest misconceptions in live cash games, and makes me chuckle and shake my head every time I hear it. Short stacks always have a strategic advantage (outside of other factors) against bigger stacks. Period. If this wasn't the case, internet poker wouldn't be overrun with professional short stackers.

Last edited by cl0r0x70; 01-20-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:11 PM   #3074
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

just want to point out that dealers very frequently miss this (not sure about parx because i haven't seen it yet) at almost every casino i've been to. the borgata dealers are very good about spotting it though...they miss sometimes but are like 90%+ in catching people who buy in for too much

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-21-2011 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:17 PM   #3075
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Sorry Ari for being on your thread. I hope to make it to Parx after the tournament. I hear very good things about your room and can't wait to visit it.

Stan
We have poker royalty in our midst to highlight the real point for capped buy-ins: to protect the casinos.

In the old days many of the NL games were played uncapped. What the casinos found out was that the worst players were eaten alive too quickly. . . the money flowed from the worst players to the best players too fast. A bad player that sat down too deep and lost couldn't rebuy. . . and thus couldn't pay rake. Instead of 10 tables, you now had 5. It was bad for the casino's bottom line.

So, at the expense of the good players, caps were brought in. The bad players now couldn't sit down 500BB deep, or try some pseudo-Martingale strategy to chase their losses. Instead, they now spend an entire evening paying rake and filling the seats, controlling their losses one buy-in at a time. Much much better for the casino's bottom line.

Are the caps better for the good players? Overall, absolutely. A healthy game that's always running is the best situation. On an individual situation-by-situation basis, is it better for a good player if a fish isn't allowed to buy in for 400BB? Absolutely not. It's the short view, I know, but it's pretty much a fact.

By the way Stan, I think you'll feel right at home at Parx. It's where one of your old 5/10NL, five of your old 2/5NL, and ten of your old 1/2 tables are running. Seriously, the first time I walked in I recognized every other player from the Borg.

Looking forward to making it back to AC soon.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-21-2011 at 09:41 AM.
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