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Old 12-30-2010, 11:25 PM   #2651
burthoovis
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

BTW we have two tables of O8 going again and no table for PLO.

At least two at my table would move over right now if it were a "reasonable" game.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:26 PM   #2652
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

To All,

I just wanted to take the time to wish everyone a happy and healthy new year! The first two months have been great, we here at parx appreciate your support. We will continue to strive to be the best poker room on the east coast. Please continue to give your feedback, as a team we are always listening.

Regards

Parx Poker Room Staff
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:51 PM   #2653
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by burthoovis View Post
Last night there were 5 players at the table playing $1/$2 and happy.

Brian showed up and insisted that it be $1/$2/$5 and, literally, drove two players (dead money) off the table.

The problem is that's its not longer "what ther players agree to". The default position is a $5 bring in.

Quite simply, I don't have a problem with the game. Just post it for what it is, a $2/$5 game and make the buy in appropriate.
You're thinking is still flawed on the dynamics of the game.

The game is not 2/5. It's a 1/2 game with a $5 bring in.

If you don't get what Brian is saying, then I don't know how else to explain it.

It seems like what you had a problem with was making it a three blind game of 1/2/5-UTG. I do agree with that but the BRING IN is much different. It's wayyyyyy better than the forced UTG. I didn't do the UTG when i was there because everyone else wasn't on board.

I don't understand the $20 open though. This seems ridiculous. The blinds are 1-2. They should count as $5 TOTAL. Making them count as $5 each DOES make this a 2-5 game.

First player in (I'm not necessarily saying UTG)....first player in should be putting in $5, $10 or $15. Rapini is 100% correct.

Last edited by Pippen33; 12-31-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:14 AM   #2654
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Played here for the first time today from 1pm to around 11pm. Really like this room. Games seemed nitty during the day but got a lot better after 6pm or so.

Not used to playing for so long... felt really unhealthy, sitting there and not eating. Ate at the noodle place for dinner... beef rice bowl thing wasn't that great. Will try other dished tho.

Ran up a ~$1,100 stack at 1/2nl which was fun too.

I'm probably going to come back tomorrow to play during NYE. No idea what that crowd will be like.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:35 AM   #2655
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippen33 View Post
You're thinking is still flawed on the dynamics of the game.

The game is not 2/5. It's a 1/2 game with a $5 bring in.

If you don't get what Brian is saying, then I don't know how else to explain it.
You guys are fairly clueless here.

The way the 1/2 PLO game with a 5 min bringin is being spread right now at Parx has a non-optimal/flawed structure with a 100min buyin.

The blinds should be more than the bringin. And the minimum buyin should be 40x the bring-in (Right now it's only 20x).

The biggest lost opportunity is not including as many of the 1/2 and 2/5 NL players that want to take a shot or fiddle around with PLO.

right now here's the NL low limit list:
$1-2No Limit Hold'em 27
$2-5No Limit Hold'em 8

THERE ARE ZERO PLO GAMES GOING RIGHT NOW.

Also, I'd like to call out the Parx PLO regulars - you guys are doing a whole bunch of -EV stuff for helping promote the game. Between driving away potential customers and berating the staff, you should be ashamed of yourselves. All you are doing is creating a situation where you can play each other and create a very exclusionary environment.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:48 AM   #2656
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

troll what iyo would be the optimal structure for Parx PLO game?
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:07 AM   #2657
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

What would be the problem with just spreading 1/2 PLO and 2/5 PLO? It seems to me that new players would be more willing to make the move from NLHE if the structure was something familiar and they weren't being pressured to adopt confusing rule changes that surreptitiously increase the stakes of the game on the fly. At least I would more willing to play, and from the sound of it, it seems like I am the type of player that the PLO devotees would be targeting (a 2/5 NL player who also likes mixed games).
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:07 AM   #2658
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_Inc View Post
right now here's the NL low limit list:
$1-2No Limit Hold'em 27
$2-5No Limit Hold'em 8

THERE ARE ZERO PLO GAMES GOING RIGHT NOW.

Also, I'd like to call out the Parx PLO regulars - you guys are doing a whole bunch of -EV stuff for helping promote the game. Between driving away potential customers and berating the staff, you should be ashamed of yourselves. All you are doing is creating a situation where you can play each other and create a very exclusionary environment.


couldnt have said it any better. I kinda like PLO, and would play it occasionally. But i have no desire to sit with a bunch of internet ****'s who want to run the game and turn into whatever the hell they feel it should be. Either make it 2/5 or leave at 1/2. And seeing how 1/2 rarely goes, no way 2/5 will sustain itself.....

And its annoying as **** to have someone slow the game down so they can post here and text all theyre boyfriends that a plo game is running....
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:29 AM   #2659
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by IFSATG View Post
aiy-ya

Game only plays correctly with $10 chips and a 2/3 blind structure! But,it might be fun to play with all redbirds... it would get old and painful after a while, though.
Looking forward to playing in this 30/60 game when I get back to town. I agree that $10 chips would be ideal, but green+red betting isn't that bad IMO (one of each, two of each).

Has the game only run once? For how long, and how many players?
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:55 AM   #2660
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Don't recall this being mentioned - but Parx has a unique (as far as I know) rule that out of turn bets (whether verbal or physically pushing chips over the line) are NOT binding, regardless of superseding action.

For example - Player A and B are heads up on the turn. Player B has the button. Before Player A acts, Player B pushes all his chips across the line. Player A checks. Player B then checks. This will be ruled a CHECK by player B (who should then be issued a warning by the floor).

Similarly - same situation as above, Player B pushes all of his chips across the line before Player A acts. Player A calls. Player B then claims that he never made a bet, because it was out of turn. This will be ruled NO BET. Player A will be free to bet or check. Player B will be free to check, bet, or fold. Player B should be issued a warning by the floor.

Not going to debate the merits here, but everyone should be aware of this house rule. You have been warned. Do not get burned.

Happy new year to all.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:32 AM   #2661
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_Inc View Post

Also, I'd like to call out the Parx PLO regulars - you guys are doing a whole bunch of -EV stuff for helping promote the game. Between driving away potential customers and berating the staff, you should be ashamed of yourselves. All you are doing is creating a situation where you can play each other and create a very exclusionary environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doooshbag View Post
But i have no desire to sit with a bunch of internet ****'s who want to run the game and turn into whatever the hell they feel it should be.

And its annoying as **** to have someone slow the game down so they can post here and text all theyre boyfriends that a plo game is running....
+3,000 Couldn't agree more to both posts. I'm beginning to see a trend in the past 10 or so pages here. A hand full or more of 2+2 ers trying to bully games into chip flying, pot building, gamboooling games. I discussed this in a previous post. You action junkie gambooolers need to stay home and 60 table online. Your continued attempt to shape a new room into a gamble fest is annoying. Trying to disguise and justify it as "action" is annoying as well. It's obviously beginning to drive players away.

Please refrain from your self-serving ways. I enjoyed the room the 18 + hours I played there and plan to be putting 25 hours + in weekly come April. I really don't want to come back to a degen infested gambling room. I would appreciate if it was still the great card room I knew before I took my break.

This isn't the internet people, it's live poker. Continue to take the meds your doctor prescribed for the Hyperactive disorder and chill. Your lack of patience , and apparent badgering of players because you aren't in an "action" game is bad for the rooms growth. I hope this trend (badgering players to change games for more money in pot and such) will be addressed, and nipped in the bud by management, before we have issues we do not want.

I am a patient , layed back guy by nature. I DO NOT have patience for hyperactive, whiny, dealer/player badgering goofballs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash View Post
good to see dooooshbag living up to his name
He is simply stating a facts.

1) This room was not built for a handful of regulars (especially the demanding rude-like ones). It was built for everyone who enjoys playing the game of poker.

2) Certain things slow down a game and are completely uncalled for.


Could someone tell me a little about the menu at the noodle bar? Good stuff? Overpriced or priced right? Do they have egg rolls?<< not a joke, I'm addicted to egg rolls


[edit] Happy New Year !!

Last edited by JONATHANM; 12-31-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:59 AM   #2662
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JONATHANM View Post
Could someone tell me a little about the menu at the noodle bar? Good stuff? Overpriced or priced right? Do they have egg rolls?<< not a joke, I'm addicted to egg rolls


[edit] Happy New Year !!

The Asian Noodle house has about a dozen different noodle soups. Like 6-8 regular dishes (mostly rice bowls) and about the same in appetizers. I'm very partial to noodle soups and have had the Shanhai Rib (korean short rib), Roast Duck and the "Slightly cooked beef" Pho noodle soups. The Roast duck was tasty yet the duck was too boney and fatty, the beef Pho was decent, but the Shanghai rib was off the hook awesome. The roast pork looked delicious and i'll likely try that next.

One of the apps were vegetable egg rolls. That's the only kind they have. I did have the pan fried dumplings which were very good.

Apps were like $4-10, soups and bowls were $8-13.

Now this place definitely isn't N.O.W. at the Borg or Noodle Asia at the V, but having a place like this at Parx is super +EV for me.

I believe they're open from 10am-4am.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:01 AM   #2663
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash View Post
troll what iyo would be the optimal structure for Parx PLO game?
I think considering the situation at PARX right now, you want the ability to spread 2 lower limit games.

PLO 1/2 ($100 min) - no bring in
PLO 2/5 ($200 min) - no bring in (With a 2/5 you don't need a bring-in to have a fast paced red chip game.


If I were just going to spread one lower limit game, I would make it either:
1/2/2 with a $5 bring in ($200 min), or
2/3 with a $5 bring in ($200 min)
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:05 AM   #2664
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by JONATHANM View Post
You action junkie gambooolers need to stay home and 60 table online.
When I come to the casino and feel like playing poker, I'm there to gamble and push chips around. I'm the guy most people absolutely want at their table because I'm going to shove chips in with marginal holdings and reload a bunch when I go bust. I also am not an online player. To your point and your entire post, and previous posts, it sounds to me like the old fart 1-5 stud players should also stay home and knit a sweater instead of coming to the casino and jamming up the aisles with their motorized scooters and oxygen tanks while waiting to die and slowing up action at the table sweating their 30-1 shot in the 5th at Aqueduct.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:08 AM   #2665
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
If 1/2 PLO with no bring in is too big for the average 1/2 player, isn't the same game with a 5 bring in (essentially a 2/5 game) too big for the average 2/5 player?

I am a 2/5 NL player myself (and also play 15/30 and 20/40 LHE), and I have enjoyed playing 1/2 PLO on several occasions (including once at Parx w/o the 5 bring in). But 2/5 PLO is too big and has too much variance for me, particularly since I do no know the game very well. If the game is played with a 5 bring in and a 20 opening raise, I am not going to be playing in it...and I doubt many 2/5 NL are willing to dip their toes into the water at those stakes.

If you are targeting "higher" players, then good luck....but seeing as how Parx usually only gets one table of 5/10 NL going, I don't think this player pool is really big enough to draw from.
1-2 with a 500 max and a 5 bring in is very similar in size to a 2/5 NL game with a 500 max. It is smaller than the Parx 2/5 which has a 1k max. And definitely smaller than a 20/40 limit game. You are grossly overestimating the effect of the bring in on the game. Sit down in the game for a few orbits and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burthoovis View Post
1. Come on Brian that's ********. I've played with you for hours and watched you badger the player UTG for not posting the $5 blind pre-deal.

3. Here's the irony about last night. The game ran from 7:30 until about 8:05 when you got there, with the opening bet being about $7 on average. You showed up, made a shitfest out of things, reduced the table by two, and ran the game into muck as a $5 limp-fest.

The only saving grace was watching you drop $500 before the game broke.

If it makes your hourly rate better to divide -$500 by 3 hours instead of 1, then who am I to argue Especially after you bought my lunch this afternoon.
Ok, I think I know the source of your confusion. Before the 5 bring in was added, I, and a bunch of others in the game often made it 5 blind UTG pre flop, but adding the 5 bring in to the game eliminated the need to do that. A 5 dollar bring in is much different than a 5 dollar blind UTG bet. You obviously haven't even played in the game with a 5 bring in for a single hand, because if you had you would know that, so maybe try sitting in the game for a while before saying how terrible a 5 bring in is for it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_Inc View Post
You guys are fairly clueless here.

The way the 1/2 PLO game with a 5 min bringin is being spread right now at Parx has a non-optimal/flawed structure with a 100min buyin.

The blinds should be more than the bringin. And the minimum buyin should be 40x the bring-in (Right now it's only 20x).

The biggest lost opportunity is not including as many of the 1/2 and 2/5 NL players that want to take a shot or fiddle around with PLO.

right now here's the NL low limit list:
$1-2No Limit Hold'em 27
$2-5No Limit Hold'em 8

THERE ARE ZERO PLO GAMES GOING RIGHT NOW.

Also, I'd like to call out the Parx PLO regulars - you guys are doing a whole bunch of -EV stuff for helping promote the game. Between driving away potential customers and berating the staff, you should be ashamed of yourselves. All you are doing is creating a situation where you can play each other and create a very exclusionary environment.

What are you talking about? Berating the staff? I've never seen any of the regs in the PLO game do that, in fact, the PLO game has to be one of one of the friendliest towards the staff there is. Sometimes theres some disagreement over the correct way to count the pot, and way to many assistant dealers, but berating? Thats just not true. I'm sorry there wasn't a PLO game for you last night, but don't make things up just cause you are angry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippen33 View Post

I don't understand the $20 open though. This seems ridiculous. The blinds are 1-2. They should count as $5 TOTAL. Making them count as $5 each DOES make this a 2-5 game.

First player in (I'm not necessarily saying UTG)....first player in should be putting in $5, $10 or $15. Rapini is 100% correct.

I agree, the open should be a max 15, I think the dealers a re just confused about it. Next time I play I'll try to get it corrected.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:30 AM   #2666
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll_Inc View Post
The biggest lost opportunity is not including as many of the 1/2 and 2/5 NL players that want to take a shot or fiddle around with PLO.

right now here's the NL low limit list:
$1-2No Limit Hold'em 27
$2-5No Limit Hold'em 8

THERE ARE ZERO PLO GAMES GOING RIGHT NOW.

Also, I'd like to call out the Parx PLO regulars - you guys are doing a whole bunch of -EV stuff for helping promote the game. Between driving away potential customers and berating the staff, you should be ashamed of yourselves. All you are doing is creating a situation where you can play each other and create a very exclusionary environment.
I'm generally a smaller stakes player but I love playing PLO and we often played 1/2 in our mixed home games.

The other night I had just left a great 1/2NL table after going card dead yet up 2 buy-ins on my way to the cage and stopped at the PLO table. I considered sitting but decided to watch 6-handed for a few minutes.

The players, albeit kindly, were prodding me to sit down and kidding about getting four cards as opposed to two and yadda yadda. However, I was confused about the $5 bring in at the time and figured it played much bigger than a standard 1/2 PLO game (which already plays much bigger than a 1/2NL game). I decided not to be the ATM for the regs.

If this were a traditional 1/2 game, i'd be more inclined to play on occasion.

If the regular PLO players merely try to make a more exciting swingy game and don't make the game more enticing for players like myself, then the PLO game will cultivate no one but themselves.

The dead money is so vastly deep at the 1/2NL tables (even amongst most of the 1/2NL Regs i've played with) right now that it's an unnecessary gamble to sit at a 1/2 PLO table that isn't a real 1/2 PLO table.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:35 AM   #2667
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

So what is the best dish at the noodle bar? I thought the roast pork rice bowl was sort of meh.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:01 AM   #2668
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

I had the shrimp dumpling noodle soup and thought it was excellent.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:56 AM   #2669
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Any chance that 8/16 (or 4/8) HOSE gets spread anytime soon ?
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:38 PM   #2670
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Ok, I think I know the source of your confusion. Before the 5 bring in was added, I, and a bunch of others in the game often made it 5 blind UTG pre flop, but adding the 5 bring in to the game eliminated the need to do that.
Oh, well that's something different all together.

A $5 min bring in seems unnecessary, but not unreasonable.

My beef is with the forced $5 UTG.

Man I'm hungover.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:41 PM   #2671
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Any chance that 8/16 (or 4/8) HOSE gets spread anytime soon ?
Tried getting some of the old O8b farts to play some a mixed game of O8b and S8b, but no dice.

I can't play much and can't schedule more than 12 hrs in advance, but definitely keep us posted if there is interest. Given a choice, I'd probably play PLO first but a definite second choice would be mixed games.

3rd choice is O8b - and it's nice that game is always running.
4th choice is LHE.
5th choice - stick a hot poker in my eye.
6th choice - NLHE.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:26 PM   #2672
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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the Shanghai rib was off the hook awesome.
This rib one sounds great!! Thank you for the post.
Quote:
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1) I'm the guy most people absolutely want at their table because I'm going to shove chips in with marginal holdings and reload a bunch when I go bust.

2) the old fart 1-5 stud players should also stay home and knit a sweater

3) jamming up the aisles with their motorized scooters and oxygen tanks

4)sweating their 30-1 shot in the 5th at Aqueduct.
1) It is nice that you have a deep enough pocket to do so and I welcome your presence at my 1/2 table. You certainly would be a welcome addition.

2) Agreed. I think the 1-5 is a little odd, which is why I like a 2-10 spread better, discussed in previous posts that obviously were overlooked.

3) I wouldn't know anything about scooters and oxygen tanks being I have at least 40 years before I reach "old fart" status and need to utilize these old people things. Plus, I have yet to see a scooter in a poker room.

4) I'm still trying to learn how to handicap ponies. When I do play ponies , I'm pretty much a " 5/10-across" player. Also, if a 30-1 looks nice, I would have no problem playing it 10 across...+EV from what I know about pony betting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixn123 View Post
1) prodding me to sit down and kidding about getting four cards as opposed to two and yadda yadda.

2) If the regular PLO players merely try to make a more exciting swingy game and don't make the game more enticing for players like myself, then the PLO game will cultivate no one but themselves.

3)The dead money is so vastly deep at the 1/2NL tables (even amongst most of the 1/2NL Regs i've played with) right now that it's an unnecessary gamble to sit at a 1/2 PLO table that isn't a real 1/2 PLO table.
1) Don't ya just love it?

2) Agreed

3) Agreed


Hey Ari. Is there any solid plans for the weekly tourney schedule yet? I know you said you were working on one. Just wondering if you might have a rough draft you might want to share?
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:33 PM   #2673
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Quote:
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I'm generally a smaller stakes player but I love playing PLO and we often played 1/2 in our mixed home games.

The other night I had just left a great 1/2NL table after going card dead yet up 2 buy-ins on my way to the cage and stopped at the PLO table. I considered sitting but decided to watch 6-handed for a few minutes.

The players, albeit kindly, were prodding me to sit down and kidding about getting four cards as opposed to two and yadda yadda. However, I was confused about the $5 bring in at the time and figured it played much bigger than a standard 1/2 PLO game (which already plays much bigger than a 1/2NL game). I decided not to be the ATM for the regs.

If this were a traditional 1/2 game, i'd be more inclined to play on occasion.

If the regular PLO players merely try to make a more exciting swingy game and don't make the game more enticing for players like myself, then the PLO game will cultivate no one but themselves.

The dead money is so vastly deep at the 1/2NL tables (even amongst most of the 1/2NL Regs i've played with) right now that it's an unnecessary gamble to sit at a 1/2 PLO table that isn't a real 1/2 PLO table.
PLO is exciting and swingy whether it's played as 1-2 or 1-2 with a 5 bring in. If anything you're underestimating how big 1-2 can play.....simply because it's PLO. I you're not looking for a swingy game, then PLO isn't for you, regardless of the stakes.

I like the 1-2 w/$5 bring in but I'm also fine with straight 1-2. I play it at the Borgata as much as possible. I just don't want you to think that adding a $5 bring-in all of the sudden changes the dynamic of the game.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:14 PM   #2674
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

Regarding the PLO..just my 2 cents

1) 1-2 with 5 bringin...being able to raise it up to 20 is the standard. Counting each blind as $5 is correct. Of course there are no absolute rules so counting them as $5 total can be done. But it should be specified by Ari as the rule of the room and all the dealers must be on the same page When people aren't, that's when the arguing starts.

2) Basically the 1-2 with the 5$ bringin is 2/5 except it costs $3 a round to fold instead of $7. And people should not be coming in with $20 often to try and steal $3. Those two differences aside, I think it might fool people into thinking its closer to 1/2 than 2/5. This is why people sit down and then leave. That can't be good, and it brings on the fighting.

3) So I say to keep it simple and just make it either 1/2 or 2/5

4) I'm partial to the 2/5. I just don't think PLO is supposed to be a low limit game, played with whites, with guys afraid of variance. If the 2/5 PLO never runs it just was not meant to be imo

5) Ari has shown great management of the room. I hope he steps in here soon and makes some type of declaration regarding the PLO games. Because all of the fighting/confusion is not helping here
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:49 PM   #2675
Troll_Inc
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Re: PARX Poker Thread

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Originally Posted by pipes View Post

3) So I say to keep it simple and just make it either 1/2 or 2/5

4) I'm partial to the 2/5. I just don't think PLO is supposed to be a low limit game, played with whites, with guys afraid of variance. If the 2/5 PLO never runs it just was not meant to be imo
I think that each game has its place and hopefully both are regularly run at PARX in the near future. That is certainly the most healthy scenario.

I disagree about the 1/2 PLO sentiment expressed here. If you look online you'll see that there is a large amount of total money at 1/2 and below stakes. PLO is a much better cash game than NLHE and it astounds me that a small fraction of those players can't be steered toward PLO - if this is going to happen it is going to have to be 1/2 NL players.

If both 1/2 and 2/5 are running, then a healthy selection of 1/2 PLO games can only make the 2/5 game better.

Lastly, 1/2 PLO can be run fine and efficiently with a simple change in pot rounding procedures. After the first round of betting, either round it up (or down) to the nearest $5 increment.
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