Not to derail, but ..

Maybe if we are at Parx come march or so could we get together? i would like to learn how to handicap better. i only play Hollywood and Golden Gate. I was taught that those tracks are easier to handicap. You can play jockies because they run for more money. I learned a little about closers and how to look for stablemates and trainers and such but would like to learn some better handicapping strats.

Don't do this.

Has the reg to recreational ratio changed at all since the expansion?

I did suggest 2-10 (no ante, $2 BI) stud to Ari, but he prefers a $1 ante game. I'm curious to see if the 4/8 ($1 ante/BI) stud & stud 8 can get going ?

Without a BBJ to chase & $5 rake, why would anyone want to play 2/4 (or 3/6) LHE anyway ?

The 4/8 games will still be filled with the old nits, degens, noobs, and chasers just like 2/4 or 3/6 games would be.

Sorry I forgot that was you 904. I think 2-10 is a great idea. Wouldn't $1 ante translate to $15-$20/hr though? AND you want me to pay rake? That's crazy. I think paying time is perfect for this game. Maybe $6-8/hr? Or is that too low?

2-10 would also be unique, and a draw to the room imo.

[edit] Did it seem he was interested in the 2-10 anyway?

Hey guys...new to this thread...r all parx tables incl. NL tables 9-handed?

Michael of NJ

yesssir. 9 handed all day errrryday.

It's glorious

ty 4 ur response...ur comments 2 that vs 10handed???

Michael of NJ

I like it much better. I mean 9 vs 10 doesn't change the dynamic of the game THAT much but it's slightly more fun as I prefer shorthanded (5 - 7 handed PLO)

You also have more room

yesss michael of NJ itt

also WAT @ all the haters itt as well... ??? wtf? It's a brand new room that is running very very well... why all the hate?

karak of 2p2

Having read all the comments, pro and con, regarding a 2/4 LHE game, I would just like to add two interesting tidbits of information.

1. Please do read the comments made on this same subject in the Delaware Park thread. It seems from the comments made there (I can't say from personal experience) that the 2/4 game has, or is in the process of, killing off the 4/8 LHE games. In other words, not only does it not feed higher limit games, but it takes players from them.

2. Yes, 2/4 LHE is spread throughout Atlantic City and elsewhere. Can anyone show me, especially in AC, where there are higher limit games? Yes, Harrah's gets a table or 2 of 4/8 mini-blind LHE. That's because management is giving double comps and tier credits for it. I'm not at all sure that the game would be there without this massive payout, and do not know for how long those bonus comps will continue.

Even the Borgata can't get anything going, in terms of limit poker, for under 20/40. And they certainly have tried!

So, given that the profits for the casino are small for this game, and that it tends to hurt higher limit games, and that very few people (yes, there are some - I'm sort of one, having actually moved up from 1-5 stud) move up from these games, I can't fault Parx for not having them.

Let's give the room a few months and see what happens with no 2/4 LHE games in the house. It'll be interesting to see the results, no matter what they are. A learning experience, if you will, for all of us.

Lee

I also think it's a great idea/unique, especially w/ the $2 chips. I've played 2-10 spread years ago, and it's much better than 1-5, and will definitely attract more of your typical stud players than 4/8 will. These are the guys who keep the low limit stud & omaha 8 games alive. I can't see them wanting to play such a high ante game. I could be wrong though...

Ari was cool with the 2-10 spread, but only w/ the $1 ante. Maybe a time charge would be OK with him ?

I completely agree, I can't think of any room that runs a 2/4 AND can successfully run a 4/8, 5/10, or 6/12. So can't say exactly why the 2/4 kills those limits, but it sure seems to. Even the 3/6 at Borgata is not as strong as the 2/4.

Only thing I disagree with is the 10/20 game at Borgata is consistent Thursday through Monday, I am rarely there mid week, so not sure about those days.

Parx is closer for me than AC, but not THAT close, the reason I go to Parx is mainly for the 8/16, but I don't mind playing 4/8 at all if the 8/16 is full or breaks. I'll only sit a 2/4 at Borgata while waiting for another table and even then only because they have a bad beat. I don't see the point of 2/4 without a bad beat.

This is absolutely correct. 4/8 is such a foreign limit to AC players (who make up the bulk of Parx's players) as it is, adding 2/4 will severly hurt the game.
IMO, if given the choice a casual LHE player will play 2/4 (or 3/6) instead of 4/8.

Besides Delaware Park, you can add the Trop to the list of extinct 4/8 games (As soon as they added 3/6 to their whiteboard 2-3 years ago).

probably should be either here, pocono downs, or ACNJ within a month or less, i really need to get away from vegas for awhile while ive still got part of my roll left. its true id MUCH rather play $2-10 stud or $1-5 (any type of spread limit, even $5-20,) as opposed to fixed limit with an ante. i might be able to withstand an ante if its 50c only and not fixed limit. but i sure wouldnt want to pay time. i often go an hour within winning a pot except for stealing the bringin, and i wouldnt want to be out all that extra money.

lots of casino managers are greedy, they introduce an ante, to kill off the game.

does it run all 24 hours where u can get sleep on it anytime, and maybe ride it more than once a day, to gain $20+ free 2 or 3 times a day and get enough rest and maybe add an extra $40-60 a day to ur roll risk free for a month or so til its about an extra $1000-2000 higher? id be surprised if u could redeem a ticket more than once a day, who reads this thread whose actually rode that bus? can the $40 in "free slot play" be used for VP or VBJ instead of reel slots?

You're right, and I do apologize for the error. Typed faster than I thought....

I'm pretty sure that it goes all week.

Lee

The Orleans in Las Vegas (2/4 and 4/8). And maybe some of the LA rooms. That's... about it.

From what I've heard, it goes fairly well, but that players in the 10/20 don't like playing short. Once it gets even 7-handed it breaks for the night.

Fact of the matter is, I think LA is the only locale in the US right now where you can find consistent limit games between 4-8 and 10-20.

The Venetian took lengths to cultivate getting 1 to 2 8-16 tables a day. Bellagio offers 8-16 but last I know it runs sporadically, with people opting for 4-8 or 15-30. Now Parx has the 1 table of 8-16. There's just really no base to draw from to get these games going; the base that was there 7-10 years ago is now playing 1/2 NL. All that's left in LHE are the leisure players (2-4, 3-6 crowd) or the "serious" players (10-20+).

Without an ante, stud becomes a game of nits waiting for the nuts. What drives the action? Why put out any money at all, unless you're the bring in, without a really strong hand? Do you really want to play with a table full of nut-nits?

Has nothing to do with casino greed, everything to do with stud being a good game.

Lee

Stud without an ante....You gotta be kidding.....I'd have to pass.

After the expansion if Parx doesn't spread 2/4 and 3/6 they will be losing more players and rake they could be earning on a deadspread. So the question is will they spread 2/4 and 3/6 after the expansion? I would say eventually when they realize they are losing revenue to casual players.

I know that it sounds crazy but, 2-10 (no ante/$2 BI) stud is a decent game.
I used to travel for business years ago and played it in Detroit (02'-Greektown) & Tunica MS (05'-Grand). Both of those games wern't lacking any action. They were much better than the AARP snooze-fest 1-5 games in AC.

Also, some of you might remember that Foxwoods had a 2-10 h/l game for years that was more of a older regs game, but still pretty good.

I can see Parx having a regular 4/8 h/l game (w/ the $1 ante) because it'll draw younger, looser players. But I'm guessing that the players who usually play regular stud games will balk @ the $1 ante for 4/8.

What most of you posters are missing in your 2/4 hate is that people want to play this just want to have fun.That don't feel intimidated by the professors and rule nits of poker.
They may not wish to invest 600 or 800 in a night of entertainment.For 200 they can sit down and have some novice fun.
They may not feel comfortable at 1/2 NL with the hoodie and sun glass wanna-be's.
Can they beat the rake most likely no.But they don't care.
Do they aspire to play in the 8/16 game most likely no.
What they want is night of entertainment for 2 or 3 hundred and if the room can not provide that the slots certainly will.

Then go play the nickel slots.

200 to 300 is good for 4/8. should last you all night as long as you aren't limping in ATC EVERY HAND and chasing runner-runner on every flop.

In a healthy poker economy, casual players enter a 4/8 game with their 200 or 300.

They might get lucky, they might win, they might lose a little. It feeds the better players, who then are able to move up. This feeds the 8/16, which in turn feeds the 10/20 game.

Casual players are going to enter the lowest limit no matter what. If a room offers unbeatable 2/4, the rake black hole, then they play that. They don't win. The regular players of 2/4 don't win. No one moves up. 4/8 feeds on itself and dies. 8/16 never runs. 10/20 has a slowly shrinking pool of regs, and 2/4 continues to suck all the money.

All the limit games die, until instead of some 4/8 games, a 8/16, and a healthy 10/20 game -- all you end up with a single 2/4 game filled with losing regs that a occasional casual player enters because there is nothing else, and a 10/20 game that hardly ever runs.

Look at NL. No newb ever enters a cardroom, says "hey! there is that game I saw on TV" and sits down at 10/25 NL with $5000. The casual players play 1/2NL. They feed the better players that move up to 3/5 which in turn move up to larger capped games.

If the house were to invent some manner of capped NL, lets call it 0/1XX, that no one could beat the rake at, all the casual players looking for "fun and entertainment" would play that because it is the lowest game offered. None would win. Regulars would not beat the rake, and never move up. 1/2NL would slowly die with no new money. Without 1/2 players taking a shot, 2/5 would die, and anything would never run.

After some time the room would have nothing but unbeatable 0/1XX, and sometimes some guys would show up for a $10,000 min buy in high stakes NL game.