no ones answered my question about wheres a cheap motel by the week in the area, and hopefully on a city bus that will get me to the casino. am not from the area, am in vegas and will be in that area sometime soon i hope.

Then change the color. Just throw out the current and order a new color....just common sense.

Hey now, let's take it easy! I'm a $2/4 player!!!


Easy there, hater-boy. And if Parx is mediocre, then Chester is upper-echelon?

Besides, before you have a stroke, jumping up and down, I believe two things are true about Parx:

1) The current room is a temporary one

2) They have future expansion planned.

They've made a decision about lower-limit games. We'll see how it works out for them, long-term. For me, playing in a game where they're taking more than a BB in rake isn't all that appealing.

Son, if you're looking to bring half of your weekly paycheck to a $2/4 game, you have more problems than 10-seat tables and limited smoking areas to worry about.

Your are miserable and bitter and your post bleeds of absurdity.

This poker room has been open for 1 month. 1 month bro. 20+ full tables weekdays.

Now, it may not be the Borgata, yet, but it's unquestionably a well run, constantly improving room with an eager to please staff and an accommodating management. Will everyone get their wishes granted? No. However, they certainly make incredible efforts to do so quickly and within reason.

For you to completely and utterly trash a brand new poker room because they will not run your 2/4 LHE game makes you an unlikable jackass.

That said, while 2/4 LHE is not my game, I see no reason not to run this game now that the expansion has occurred. If people want to play that limit, and the casino is making a profit from it, and it allows opportunity for some of those folks to move up to 4/8 LHE or 1/2 NL after getting hit with the deck, then I really don't care if it's spread. I don't quite understand what the epic hate is towards the 2/4 games. Nor do I see what the negative effect would be for running these games. I just frankly do not care.

Why the "epic" hate on 2/4 limit:
It kills all larger limit games. In the classic scenario, let's use the current 4/8 games being spread, the room will have 4/8, 6/12, 10/20... etc. Winning 4/8 players will move up the food chain. The larger games are sustained by players moving up in limits. The lower limit game is fed with casual players entering the game. CLASSIC. Works every where.

Now, what happens every where when 2/4 is spread? No one wins at 2/4. No one moves up. The higher limit games don't get fed with new players. Casual players enter the lowest game and stay there, or lose and leave. The higher limit games die. In a year, all that is spread is 2/4. You can't get a higher limit game running.

The 2/4 player pool is not there to win. They are losers. Why would they move up and lose money at an increased rate? The remaining 2/4 player pool is not there to win money. Even if they could win, what 1BB/hr? They are not even making 1/2 of minimum wage. They are not there to win and move up. Casual players enter and lose, and don't move up.

The death spiral is complete. 2/4 will be the only limit game running, everyone loses, and no higher games can be sustained. Casual players come, lose, and leave, never playing a bigger game. The remaining players are not there to do anything but lose as slowly as possible. Limit in such a room is dead.

This death knell to limit poker has repeated itself in every poker room in the country. The only exceptions are rooms, like in Vegas or Atlantic City, where there is large enough outside traffic (re: tourists) to continue to feed higher limit games despite the black hole of 2/4 sucking the action from the room.

ive played $1-3 NL often at ceasers LV, and i hate they way they use $2 chips and give them to the players back in change, making u out or short of $1s all the time. they should ONLY be used to take the rake.

I can't fathom how anyone who has ever seen the typical composition of a 2/4 LHE in a casino can claim that such a game would be useful to "cultivate new players".

Ari, thanks for the reply. I respect your decision although I do not see the logic behind it.

My personal situation: I'm a $5 $10 no limit player at Parx and play there about once a week. My wife is a casual player and only plays $2 $4 limit. When she wants to go to the casino also, I'll have to visit a competing casino although Parx is closer to my home.

Please keep the $2 $4 limit option open for future consideration. Thanks.

wow, this thread has become AIDS infected during the last 36 hours.

I have no opinion on the 2/4 limit game as I play PLO or NL when the glorious 4 card game isn't running.

That being said, I DID start at 2/4 limit like 7 years ago when I first started playing....so who am I to be of the opinion that it shouldn't be offered?

What I DON'T like is the hate on this room (and I even saw a post about Borgata). The reason those 2 rooms are so popular is because they are elite (not elitist). Big difference. Stan (and now Ari) are responsible for that. They listen to their players and weigh every opinion given. I have an insane amount of respect for both. The bottom line is, it's a business. If PARX thinks the 4-8 game is more beneficial, then it's their duty to keep it as the room's low stakes game. Again, the room has been open a month +....that decision can certainly change in 3, 6, 12 months....whatever. Give them time.

PARX has been open for about 6 weeks? I have been there 5 times and I LOVE the room. The management has been VERY receptive to constructive criticism and I can't foresee anything but HUGE success for the room in the future.

If you are PO'd cause they won't offer you a 2/4 game, fine. But you won't find much else to quarrel over.

Oh, that helps make your point. What was your point, anyway? However, I am glad that I managed to amuse you.


Yea, riiiight.

Can you see the complete irony and absurdity in your statement?

Hint: 20-something 1/2 NL players.

BTW... Foxwoods == Taj North. Full of bitter, angry, nasty people. Sounds like your kind of place, huh?

Who ****ing cares what "big-name pro" may or may not play here?!?!?!?

Once again... your point???!?!?!?!?

Hey look. If you don't like it here, play somewhere else. I really don't give a rats ass. But, thanks for your insightful and productive contributions to this thread.

Merry Christmas!

Agreed

---------------------------

Here are some interesting points regarding 2/4-3/6 LHE as they relate to a casino connected to a race track :

1) .A good amount of horse betting degens enjoy poker.
2) When the live racing season starts there is going to be a spike in poker room traffic.
3) Most Pony degens are of the older variety thus gravitate toward LHE and stud.
4) Most pony degens are $2 exacta and trifecta players trying to catch a big score w/ limited investment. These people are not going to play higher than 2/4. These players will never have the desire to move up. They will, however, be there week after week after week if 2/4 is spread. This would be good for revenue I think.

I would say spreading 2/4-3/6 LHE and 1-5 stud (or some other low limit variation, 2-10 was suggested by someone) would be in Parx best interest. Especially during pony season IMHO.

I'm not brick and mortar hound, but I find it hard to believe that offering a 2/4 LHE game leads to higher limit destruction. Doesn't make much sense. To me, offering a Stud game wouldn't mean the Holdem tables will disappear. Offering a 2/4 games doesn't make 10/20 disintegrate. 4/8 players aren't going to sit at 2/4 just because it's offered. So those players are still going to sit at 4/8.

You make it sound like if 2/4 is one of the offerings, then all mid and high stakes players just up and run for the hills and higher stakes are never seen again.

2/4 is a starter game for folks. Casual play. If you don't want casual players, that's your prerogative in opinion. Like another poster mentioned, it's the game the wife plays while the husband sits at the high stakes game. Or it's the other casino that he takes his wife to so she can play 2/4 while he's grinding out. I started at 2/4 when I first discovered holdem. So have many others. You think every person who wants to play holdem jumps off the internet into a B&M poker room room to sit down at 2/5NL?

What's it gonna do, bring Parx crashing down? That's absurd. The Borgata ran 5 out of 40 tables at 2/4 LHE on Christmas eve. Didn't seem to hurt their middle and high stakes games. Are they some anomaly that can make it work where Parx would suffer epic failure?

I don't even play 2/4, I just don't understand the hate.

Yes - exactly. We asked for things that many other rooms have already. It would have been great to see this room open with no glitchs. Well, that didn't happen. For a lot of different reasons. I guess you don't remember when the Borg first opened, eh? It was a disaster. It remained a disaster until Stan took control.

Sorry to hear that your expectations were not met. Perhaps, you can now go back to Chester, the Taj or some other quality venue for your exciting game of 2-4 limit.



Ass kissing? Not really. Acknowledgement and thanks for continuing to do things that make the room better? Yes. Absolutely!

Sorry to disagree with you, but this place is far from mediocre.

Actually, the existing lighting met code and safety regulations. Improvements were... improvements.

Clearly, you have no understanding of PA state law, regarding smoking in a racing and gaming environment. I wish the building was 100% smoke free. However, that is NEVER going to happen, unless the law is changed.

Almost anything can be fixed,with the appropriate amount of money and effort. You really want them to replace all the chairs? Get a grip. Yes, they suck. Deal with it. You really want them to abandon all the $2 chips and start over. Hold your breath on that. Yes, they suck. Deal with it.

As for your beloved Borgata, I think that is a great room. Top shelf. But, there are a few things that I don't like about it, but I don't cry like a girl over them in their thread... I hate that they have 2/4 and 3/6 limit. I hate that they don't have 4/8, 6/12, 8/16 or that pink doesn't get off the ground. I hate that they spread 20/40 and not 15/30. I hate the line at the cage wraps around room sometimes and there is one cashier working. I hate that they charge for parking (and I don't pay with my Black Card), I hate the traffic in the summer and the tolls to get there (not really a Borgata-caused problem). But, Stan runs the best room in town. Not even close.

I don't want to turn this thread into a Parx v. Borgata tirade.

That said, not all people will like all things about any room. What I like, however, is that Ari, like Stan, is in touch with the poker community and sincerely wants to make the poker room as good as possible.

You can always vote with your wallet - if you don't like it, don't play there.

For anyone interested in taking a bus from NYC...

There are now Chinatown buses running from Manhattan (Bowery Street) to Parx starting at 8:30AM and departing every hour. Tickets are $16 and Parx gives $40 in slot play upon arrival (i.e. profit $24 before you step into the poker room).

If you don't mind riding the bus with the homeless, people with open wounds, registered sex offenders or the mentally insane, this may be an option for you.

Sounds like the condescending voice of a 15/30 player.If players want a 2/4 game what's the big deal.It's the same bingo poker of mid stakes limit.The house makes just as much money off that game with tons less aggravation it takes to appease the high and mighty.

Johnathen I'd love to see some stud action but don't bank on the live racing season...Philly park is one of only 2 thoroughbred tracks to race year round the other being Penn national...

The only time the "pha" takes a break from action is when Atlantic city racecourse races usually for 3 weeks in late April through early may...

Sorry but I had to comment cuz I'm a horse racing degenerate

ok thanks for trying

I STRONGLY encourage the PARX Staff to create a Non Smoking Area in the Bar Food Section. While the Food Provisions are limited and mediocre at best, there is nothing worse than trying to eat a Cold Sub while breathing in nicotine fumes. There is no eating at the tables which is fine. But Please rectify this non smoking omission so some of us can eat a sandwich in Peace with clean lungs.

Thanks for your consideration.

On the 2/4 question, people arguing it for it have to realize it is in your best interest every single time to play 4/8 over 2/4, it is NOT the same game scaled down.

A: Poker rooms have an operating cost per table (dealer, electricity, room, & so on). They have to recoup that with a touch of profit on any table. That means a MINIMUM they have to bring in per game. Please for the love of all that is holy don't start arguing about what that is in reality, (or the big bad casinos) as that is not at all what is being discussed here. Just understand each table has a minimum operating cost, that is all this point is here for.

B: Let's say for a given casino it is $5 per hand. Now, the % of each hand a player wins that is lost increases the lower you go. Now say a casino spreads 1/2 (which according to the "lower is fine ad infinitum" logic would be ok) and everyone sat down with a standard 25BB. That means each player has $50 in front of them. At a meager 25 hands per hour, the casino is removing $150 (assuming a $1 tip per hand) off the table. 3 players per hour are being eaten up just by the house. The player base can't sustain that type of loss, no one profits, everyone but the house loses.

Stake - Buy In - $PerHourToHouse - #PlayersPerHourToHouse
1/2 - $50 - $150 - 3
2/4 - $100 - $150 - 1.5
4/8 - $200 - $150 - .75
8/16 - $400 - $115($5time) - .37
15/30 - $750 - $133($6time) - .2

Notice the drastic droppoff in percentage of the PLAYERS money leaving the game. Also notice what stake the casino actually starts leaving some money on the table. The argument about 2/4 vs 4/8 is not an arbitrary made up wall, it is directly linked to the operating cost per table. This is the ragged edge that a casino can offer a game that can be won. Also notice the percentage of PLAYER money that is taken by the casino, and how moving up in stakes benefits ALL players, losing or winning.

C:
1-Casinos are in the business of making as much money as humanly possible. Hands down 100%.
2-Casinos realize that taking all your money at once is inferior to taking it slowly. It is better to take $5 a week for a month for $25 then to just take $20 up front. Not only in the actual profit, but in the fact that psychologically you are more likely to come back, not noticing the slow bleed as badly as the large hit.
3-Yes they are taking the same amount each time, but they realize the percentage of your available money to be had that they take.

Now putting this together, why would a casino not spread a game you are asking to play there? We know they don't "care" about you or your welfare. We know they want to take all your money in the end.
It is because, even an entity who wants nothing more than to take your money realizes how brutally 2/4 is raked is to your ability to come back and keep playing (and paying rake).

Side points:

D: If you only have $100 to risk at a given moment, save it till you $200 and can play. You will be MUCH better off for it.

E: Why would I care so much about the 4/8 vs 2/4 game as a higher limit player to sit here and take the time to put all this out there? Why do people who have nothing to gain (at the moment) by you playing 2/4 vs 4/8 want you to play 4/8? It is because we have your best interest in mind (at the moment). To allow you enough time and a beatable game at your disposal to eventually move up to play with us.

F: Higher limit players do not only play higher for the higher stakes themselves, they move up as quickly as possible to minimize the effect of the rake on their game and their ability to win vs the rake. No matter how good the players you are playing with are, none of them are as good as the rake.

When I used to eat food from the bar, I would carry it back out to the simulcast area at the top of the escalators. Now with the smoke free downstairs and noodle bar it isn't as much of an issue. To be honest though I don't think a non smoking area at the bar would work at all, you are just too close. I think if you choose that food over the others your best best is to walk it back to the non smoking table area imho.

http://www.taeyeonkim.com/parx/

Select PLO from the drop down on the upper right to see its history. Short answer is, yes frequently.

I'm NOT surprised that this was your response. Maybe, when you hit 20 posts, you'll have grown up a tad.

and, I actually agree that a $2/4 game for casual or part-time players might be nice... but, as mentioned above, it probably won't be creating new players and may not be spread regularly. But, I'm not a b&m exec, so I don't know all of the facts behind running the lower-limit games.

Grim,

You make some excellent points and its hard to counter.

But you neglect to take into account that people do things for the sake of being entertained. Slot machines are brutally -EV, yet from time to time I feed them a few 20s because I'm entertained. I can't see how really any 2/4 LHE players would even remotely begin to pick up your concepts on why one shouldn't play 2/4 anyway. So to a casual player or those who just want to give it a try, 4/8 is providing more of a risk to be entertained.

At the risk of being called an "elitist"....any chance that we can put the 2/4 chatter to bed for a little while?

The post above says it's not going to be there in the very near future....but we're a new room, will continue to look at the business side of things and might be more open minded in the future.

We have discussed the pros/cons/pros of the pros/cons of the cons....etc etc.

Let's return the thread to what it was. By that I mean: $2 chips..good or not....and "does anyone smell smoke"

oh...and most important....how hot the cocktail waitresses are. There can't be much debate on that.

Anyway, I'm looking to get down there this Thursday for some PLO. Hope to see you guys there.

You forgot......." So WE can take all your money. Though you have a deep pocket, you do not have the ability to play at our level. Therefore, stop giving it to silly little 2/4 players, we need the fish up here. The aforementioned is the nicest way I could come up with to con you into coming to our shark tank. "

If there is a player pool that can sustain higher limit games consistently, higher limit games will run. If there is a player pool that will only support 1/2-8/16 consistently, those games will prosper. Bottom line kids, this isn't Vegas. What will run , will run. We've only been open for just under 2 months, just recently doubling the table count. Take yer Ridillin or Percoccet, or Valium , or whatever the doctor has prescribed for you to chill, and just chill.


Agreed


I stand by my previous post


What do I know , I'm just a 40 year old degen Caddie

** Hope everyone had a good Christmas....I got coal