Typical

It was the first time I've ever noticed out of order faucets. I managed to persevere by sliding two steps to the left and expertly select one of the 9 that were still working.

I don't recommend chancing it if you're not a seasoned veteran of the tricky terrain that is parx bathrooms however.

Anyone know if the 10/10 @ parx plays bigger than the 5/10 at borgata? I know there is a 3k vs 2k cap, but does that force higher pre/post flop betting?

It is a bigger game. Borgata lots of people open to $35 and Parx is almost only $40 or $50.

Heading North from Md.Wednesday. What's the action like on a Wed. afternoon? Primarily play 1/2, 2/5 but play just about everything I noticed a noon tourney.

AW

thanks ashinynickel

Any guesses on how many runners for tonights bounty tournament ??

Plus people straddle at Parx sometimes. No straddling at borgata yet.

Ari,

This situation happened a few weeks ago. I posted it in the main forum and someone there recommended I post it here. It's a pretty rare situation but Im just curious what the proper ruling.

The player in the hand took a long time on every decision.

(2/5 Game). Two players at the river, pretty big pot. The player FIRST TO ACT is taking forever. He's not facing a bet obviously. Eventually the clock is called, floor comes over and starts the countdown. The floor gives him a 10 second countdown. The clock runs out & the floor tells the dealer to kill his hand. Player flips out etc etc.


1) The player wasnt facing a bet, so shouldn't it just be a check.
2) I dont think the floor recognized that the player with the clock called on him was first to act. I dont blame him because its a pretty ridiculous event.


So Ari does this constitute a check or is this players hand dead.

I dont think the player was performing an angle, but I can kinda see why it could be one. If Im sitting there with the nuts hypothetically, have clock called on me and let the clock run out the player would probably think I had air. I could then chk raise etc. The guy def wasnt doing this though FWIW

I asked 1 of the floor guys last night & they told me it would be a check, but Id like to hear Aris take.

Any time you tank and get called clock before a bet is even made is overkill on time wasting, kill the dudes hand.

You would kill the hand just because the player is wasting time?


RRoP:


DEAD HANDS

1. Your hand is declared dead if:

(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.

Yeah you are wasting my money and the casinos, we don't need your business, let this one dead hand be a warning.

True, RRoP doesn't say that the hand should be dead. But, it also doesn't say that the hand shouldn't be dead. The situation is not addressed in RRoP.

A bit harsh, especially the "we don't need your business" remark, but I generally agree - in an ambiguous situation, I lean towards the decision that punishes the party being discourteous to others.

I, too, wouldn't like that the player is wasting time, but I would like it even less if the floor made decisions based on the casino's bottom line.

Parx does not have a time rake. That player would hardly be wasting your money. I could see ruling the player's hand dead if this was a common occurrence or if he had been the source of many problems. However, this does not appear to be the case. As such, I'd like to think that the floor would make a decision based on verifiable rules... not a whim.

I think a fair floor person should not kill the hand but warn the player that his hand may very will be killed if he does that again.

Though RRoP doesn't state that the hand shouldn't be dead, it would have been quite easy to exclude the words "when facing a bet or raise" and just leave it that exceeding the time limit would declare the hand dead.

Again, unless this particular player has a "history," I think this situation calls for a warning.

Perhaps the key point, which hasn't been discussed, is that it wasn't mentioned if the floor warned the player that his hand would be killed if he exceeded the time limit. A floor person should always tell the player what the result will be once time is up. If the floor did not alert the player of what will happen, then it would be unjust to kill his hand since he was not facing a bet or raise.

The floor never told the player his hand would be killed. In all honesty I dont think the floor realized the guy was first to act. After the table erupted I think he just played it off saying if time runs out your hand is dead.

The problem is that when you have one guy who makes a wrong decision and tries to cover it up, it makes everyone who is in charge there look bad. I know of a female floorperson there who seems quite razzled when faced with a tough decision. (It was on my table but didn't involve me) It's easy to say Parx must have lax standards or 0 training for their floorpeople, but in all honesty it's probably just one or 2 bad apples. Many of the supervisors are wonderful there in my experience.

Again, the original poster did not state that the player was repeatedly taking too long, so punishing a player because it "adds up" is not just. The poster also did not claim that it took about 10 minutes.

I'm all for calling the clock on someone who is really slow. In this situation, the clock was obviously justified since the player was not facing a bet or raise. I just don't see ruling the head dead as the proper call because (1) he was not facing a bet or raise and (2) he was not warned that his hand would be killed once time was up, which is what any competent floor person should make known before starting the clock.

Finally, the loss of opportunity cost of time in this situation is far less than the size of the pot. If we're considering the financial effects, then I'm giving much more weight to the many chips in the middle of the table than the "loss" of a chip on the edge of the table.

I think the floor's job is make ruling/judgment calls, but NOT to play a person's hand for them. The player wasting time is faced with 3 options, fold, check, or bet. By being a jackass and letting the clock run down to zero, he's forcing the floor to make a ruling. The floor, can't just say, i'll count over. If the floor rules that action is a check, it means he is making the choice of action of fold, check, or, bet. By declaring the hand dead, he is saying that as a result of the jackass player's inaction, the hand is dead. Maybe hairsplitting declaring a hand dead vs characterizing this as a forced fold, but i think a hair worth splitting.

I've seen some screwy calls at Parx. One floor stated that he based SOSA on how much action the player (who was shown the cards) had seen. For example, if a new player sits down when the river card hits and the winning player shows his cards only to the new player, then SOSA does not apply.

I wont give out names of course, but the floor in this situation was one of those former dealers turned floor guys. He is a nice guy & does a good job. He just didnt handle this particular situation well.

The sticking point for me is whether the floor announced what would happen once time was up. Given that it appears as though floor didn't even realize that the clock was called on a player who was first to act (not facing a bet or raise), I expect that the floor never warned the player that his hand would be killed when time was up.

Shame on the player for not acting before time was up.

Shame on the dealer for not making it clear to the floor that first action was on the player.

Shame on the floor for not making it clear what would happen once time was up.