Palm Beach Kennel Club (West Palm Beach, FL)
06-04-2010
, 12:11 AM
Quote:
PLO is an action game. I've played at PBKC for several years (back when the poker room entrance doors were on the side facing the track!) and know that a lot of people love to gamble it up there. They will enjoy the action PLO gives them. Provided, of course, that they know the rules. That includes also having the dealers adjust to the pot-limit vs no-limit betting differences.
That being said, those old ante 5 players (now the 5-10 degenerates) would welcome PLO once they get the hang of it.
1-2 PLO (100-500 buy in)
2-5 PLO (200-1000 buy in)
to start, of course. Once people fall in love (which they will) 5-10 will follow after.
Hopefully you will have cash-boxes available for players. Also perhaps have a reward system for the regs. Maybe a free meal at the paddock or something after x number of visits.
Great job with this thread. I'll be coming shortly for my free beer.
That being said, those old ante 5 players (now the 5-10 degenerates) would welcome PLO once they get the hang of it.
1-2 PLO (100-500 buy in)
2-5 PLO (200-1000 buy in)
to start, of course. Once people fall in love (which they will) 5-10 will follow after.
Hopefully you will have cash-boxes available for players. Also perhaps have a reward system for the regs. Maybe a free meal at the paddock or something after x number of visits.
Great job with this thread. I'll be coming shortly for my free beer.
Guess you have to be there to understand what the **** I'm talking about.
06-04-2010
, 03:55 PM
06-04-2010
, 07:15 PM
Quote:
Here I go
I am a semi regular at the PBKC. I started going there when the 2 dollar max betting limit started and no-limit did not exist. The room has been through many changes and remodels and staff.
New games to spread.
You already have the holdem limits understood. Let me speak for limit games, please add a 5 / 10 Limit game, the chips are so much easier to deal with, but no place really runs a 5 10 limit game. Oh well.
Now let’s get to some exciting games. I know you will hate this one, but think of offering it. 1 / 2 pot limit 5 card draw. This is a great game, people do play it, (especially in my home game) and this could be a unique game to offer to set the PBKC apart from other poker rooms, let’s face it, everyone knows how to play 5 card draw, it is played online on pokerstars and in almost every home game in America, it has less players at the table 6 max. but you still get to rake it.
Limit 7 card stud, (and maybe hi-low). Many older players love this game, and PB has lots of older players, and let’s face it, when the limits go up you will see lots of new faces, and they will be older looking faces (try it without and ante). My dad and his friends enjoy a home game that is mostly 40/80 stud. When the limits go up, you will see bigger limit games, so put a ‘showing interest” up on your sign-in board for this.
This leads to offer of showing interest in RAZZ, again many older players enjoy this game and many poker rooms in CA have one or two tables going.
Limit Omaha and Limit Omaha 8, many limit ranges from 2/4 through 8 / 16, but player interest will drive the limits
Oh did I say, get rid of the 5 dollar rake. I know this will never happen that is why a lot of people play online, the rake is so high. 5 in rake plus the Bad beat jackpot and then a dealer tip, that is 7 dollars leaving the table every hand, even more if the dealer tip is higher.
You had the rake at 3 dollars before, then it jumped to 5 then back down to 4 and now 5 plus the 1 dollar bad beat jackpot, time to think about the long haul.
Get rid of the jackpot, now with the new limits, you may not need that advertisement to get players in the door. Those who don’t care about, which is many, would prefer to keep that money on the table and in play, thus creating more money for the players and more rake for the PBKC (Roonys) think long term here.
PLO is a must 1 / 2 dollar (2/5 or higher if you have interest). Train those dealers. Some of them are very good and were able to transition from 1 /2 limit to no limit very well. I thought the math and counting the bets and side pots would get to them, but most have done a good job. Make sure it is PLO and not PLO 8OB, offer both. I heard someone say at the PBKC that when they played Omaha high, that when the flop came out, most players fold, well that is not the case in PLO it is the most action game and has paid for my last car.
I do not know if it is a state law, but when you start having 3/6, 4/8 and 8/16 limit games, the players may need to have racks on the table, to accommodate and handle all the chips. All over the world, other card rooms allow you to put rakes on the table, just a thought.
Food, when we will be able to get food from the Paddock in the poker room? That would be great, then we would need some real plates to eat from. You will need that for the higher limit players as well.
Get some bottled beer. I know you have Heineken and Corona in the bottle. It is time for domestic beers. I don’t drink much beer their because the beer I like is offered in a plastic bottle, c’mon already, I was told once that you have can and plastic bottles for safety reason, so people would not throw them or whatever, I suspect that was a story from the dealer, but either way, you have glass bottle beer in other brands, lets step up and get them for all the brands.
Let talk about mixed drinks. I rarely order those as well, unless I am drinking it straight, why? You have Pepsi products, whoever orders jack and coke or rum and coke and expects to get Pepsi, I know you are in partners with them and use them throughout the facility, but I have lots of drinking poker friends who go to the PBKC and don’t drink for these very reasons. In my home games, we drink to like fish. ( I know I will get a comment from someone about being a fish, I love the internet) At least get coke in the poker room. Think big, that place will change like never before seen when the new limits kick-in.
Oh ya, bottle water for free too would be nice, I think the Isle or Rock are offering that already.
High limits area. First of all I do not like to play in the area on the first floor in the north end of the card room, the space has no “people energy”, It is quiet, too far from the cage, no action, the wait staff does go over too much to see if you need anything and does not have many TV displays. Here are some thoughts, how about taking out the 3 card poker high tops and putting two high limit tables in that space. You can put up a short barrier wall that will match and connect to the columns that already exist and make it fours walls with one entrance all the way around the two tables. I say this for a couple of reasons. High limit games attract people. People are good for business, when people see high limit player and games going, they tend to play themselves. This way, people in the poker room and outside ( the outer hallway near the track) can see a little bit of the big games and get the energy going. I know you will think that people want privacy, but let’s be honest, many of the high limit players want to be seen as well. If you put a small enclosure around the area with some etched glass on top of it, people can still see a little of what is going on, but not see all the table action. This way the high limit players are treated like kings, being seen by everyone, they will be close to the bar and to the cage in that location.
Or you can keep them towards the south east corner of the first floor poker room by all the monitors, give them a couple of tables around where table 30 or 31 is located, I think those are the numbers, and move a few tables away from them. This way they will be closer to the cage, further away from the glass hallway and have some privacy, whatever you do, do not stick them where they cannot be seen entirely. If the players want the secluded table in the middle of nowhere, then you can just have them play in the north side of the room all the way to the east wall. But if you hide them entirely you are losing your advertising. Look at Bobbies room and the Ivey’s room, the high limit area is raised and have glass around them so they can be seen. (no fish tank in the poker room, a real pain in the butt to own and very expensive to maintain, and no-one wants to hear any pumps that might make noise)
Tourneys, lower your rake. I think the last SNG that I remember talking about was 60 to play and 15 of that was going towards rake, wow that is a lot, a high percentage for the house. Maybe charge a lower fee/percentage … something, maybe you lowered juice already, I hope so.
You want to make a name for the PBKC, well here is one way. 18 to play right? Have a 10,000 buy in No-limit holdem tourney, just after the WSOP. Bring in Matt Savage or some other pro TD to get it organized. When the new limits take place all these young guns who are under 21 will come from everywhere to play in a live tourney. Pokerstars had like what 1200 players in the Bahamas, I know they ran all the satellites, but once you advertise in Vegas July 1st for this tourney, you should be able to get a ton of players. Think of all the Online guys who cannot play live poker because of their age. If you had this organized, you will have great marketing for the PBKC. Have the tourney near the end of July or beginning August when the WSOP is over. Tons of players have to go overseas including Australia to play because of the 21 year old age restriction in the most states. This would be huge publicity and would take the poker world by storm. I know you have like 60 tables total, but depending on the number of players you can have multiple starting days, thus leaving tables for cash games, or add tables in the hallway outside the poker room, or in the paddock. Whichever, this prospect would put the PBKC on the map in poker.
Time for New chairs, a few new felts, I know it is Florida, but when the limits go up, people will not like to see the staff in Hawaiian shirts and flip flops like it was mentioned in a previous post, you do not see that in Bobby’s room, keep up the dress code. Think big time, because it is coming.
Get rid of the button blind in the 1 /2 NL game, players do not like it, they don’t, you will rake the game anyway, no use in killing the sheep when you can sheer him many times. In CA when they have a button blind it is 25% of the BB not the entire BB. Think big time class, not cheapos that rake, you are in this for the long haul too along with the players.
I find more players would rather pay by rake than time. It is easier for the player to get up and leave, move to another table and take a break, maybe it is just me.
You can charge more rake on the High limit games to make up for some of these cuts. I never understood why a 1 /2 limit game had a 3 dollar rake and a 20/40 limit game had a 3 dollar rake. If they have more in play you should be able to take more, call it “an ambiance charge”.
I will stop by and see you, I may not want to get that free beer in a plastic bottle, maybe I will sneak in a Coke and get a mixed drink from you.
I am a semi regular at the PBKC. I started going there when the 2 dollar max betting limit started and no-limit did not exist. The room has been through many changes and remodels and staff.
New games to spread.
You already have the holdem limits understood. Let me speak for limit games, please add a 5 / 10 Limit game, the chips are so much easier to deal with, but no place really runs a 5 10 limit game. Oh well.
Now let’s get to some exciting games. I know you will hate this one, but think of offering it. 1 / 2 pot limit 5 card draw. This is a great game, people do play it, (especially in my home game) and this could be a unique game to offer to set the PBKC apart from other poker rooms, let’s face it, everyone knows how to play 5 card draw, it is played online on pokerstars and in almost every home game in America, it has less players at the table 6 max. but you still get to rake it.
Limit 7 card stud, (and maybe hi-low). Many older players love this game, and PB has lots of older players, and let’s face it, when the limits go up you will see lots of new faces, and they will be older looking faces (try it without and ante). My dad and his friends enjoy a home game that is mostly 40/80 stud. When the limits go up, you will see bigger limit games, so put a ‘showing interest” up on your sign-in board for this.
This leads to offer of showing interest in RAZZ, again many older players enjoy this game and many poker rooms in CA have one or two tables going.
Limit Omaha and Limit Omaha 8, many limit ranges from 2/4 through 8 / 16, but player interest will drive the limits
Oh did I say, get rid of the 5 dollar rake. I know this will never happen that is why a lot of people play online, the rake is so high. 5 in rake plus the Bad beat jackpot and then a dealer tip, that is 7 dollars leaving the table every hand, even more if the dealer tip is higher.
You had the rake at 3 dollars before, then it jumped to 5 then back down to 4 and now 5 plus the 1 dollar bad beat jackpot, time to think about the long haul.
Get rid of the jackpot, now with the new limits, you may not need that advertisement to get players in the door. Those who don’t care about, which is many, would prefer to keep that money on the table and in play, thus creating more money for the players and more rake for the PBKC (Roonys) think long term here.
PLO is a must 1 / 2 dollar (2/5 or higher if you have interest). Train those dealers. Some of them are very good and were able to transition from 1 /2 limit to no limit very well. I thought the math and counting the bets and side pots would get to them, but most have done a good job. Make sure it is PLO and not PLO 8OB, offer both. I heard someone say at the PBKC that when they played Omaha high, that when the flop came out, most players fold, well that is not the case in PLO it is the most action game and has paid for my last car.
I do not know if it is a state law, but when you start having 3/6, 4/8 and 8/16 limit games, the players may need to have racks on the table, to accommodate and handle all the chips. All over the world, other card rooms allow you to put rakes on the table, just a thought.
Food, when we will be able to get food from the Paddock in the poker room? That would be great, then we would need some real plates to eat from. You will need that for the higher limit players as well.
Get some bottled beer. I know you have Heineken and Corona in the bottle. It is time for domestic beers. I don’t drink much beer their because the beer I like is offered in a plastic bottle, c’mon already, I was told once that you have can and plastic bottles for safety reason, so people would not throw them or whatever, I suspect that was a story from the dealer, but either way, you have glass bottle beer in other brands, lets step up and get them for all the brands.
Let talk about mixed drinks. I rarely order those as well, unless I am drinking it straight, why? You have Pepsi products, whoever orders jack and coke or rum and coke and expects to get Pepsi, I know you are in partners with them and use them throughout the facility, but I have lots of drinking poker friends who go to the PBKC and don’t drink for these very reasons. In my home games, we drink to like fish. ( I know I will get a comment from someone about being a fish, I love the internet) At least get coke in the poker room. Think big, that place will change like never before seen when the new limits kick-in.
Oh ya, bottle water for free too would be nice, I think the Isle or Rock are offering that already.
High limits area. First of all I do not like to play in the area on the first floor in the north end of the card room, the space has no “people energy”, It is quiet, too far from the cage, no action, the wait staff does go over too much to see if you need anything and does not have many TV displays. Here are some thoughts, how about taking out the 3 card poker high tops and putting two high limit tables in that space. You can put up a short barrier wall that will match and connect to the columns that already exist and make it fours walls with one entrance all the way around the two tables. I say this for a couple of reasons. High limit games attract people. People are good for business, when people see high limit player and games going, they tend to play themselves. This way, people in the poker room and outside ( the outer hallway near the track) can see a little bit of the big games and get the energy going. I know you will think that people want privacy, but let’s be honest, many of the high limit players want to be seen as well. If you put a small enclosure around the area with some etched glass on top of it, people can still see a little of what is going on, but not see all the table action. This way the high limit players are treated like kings, being seen by everyone, they will be close to the bar and to the cage in that location.
Or you can keep them towards the south east corner of the first floor poker room by all the monitors, give them a couple of tables around where table 30 or 31 is located, I think those are the numbers, and move a few tables away from them. This way they will be closer to the cage, further away from the glass hallway and have some privacy, whatever you do, do not stick them where they cannot be seen entirely. If the players want the secluded table in the middle of nowhere, then you can just have them play in the north side of the room all the way to the east wall. But if you hide them entirely you are losing your advertising. Look at Bobbies room and the Ivey’s room, the high limit area is raised and have glass around them so they can be seen. (no fish tank in the poker room, a real pain in the butt to own and very expensive to maintain, and no-one wants to hear any pumps that might make noise)
Tourneys, lower your rake. I think the last SNG that I remember talking about was 60 to play and 15 of that was going towards rake, wow that is a lot, a high percentage for the house. Maybe charge a lower fee/percentage … something, maybe you lowered juice already, I hope so.
You want to make a name for the PBKC, well here is one way. 18 to play right? Have a 10,000 buy in No-limit holdem tourney, just after the WSOP. Bring in Matt Savage or some other pro TD to get it organized. When the new limits take place all these young guns who are under 21 will come from everywhere to play in a live tourney. Pokerstars had like what 1200 players in the Bahamas, I know they ran all the satellites, but once you advertise in Vegas July 1st for this tourney, you should be able to get a ton of players. Think of all the Online guys who cannot play live poker because of their age. If you had this organized, you will have great marketing for the PBKC. Have the tourney near the end of July or beginning August when the WSOP is over. Tons of players have to go overseas including Australia to play because of the 21 year old age restriction in the most states. This would be huge publicity and would take the poker world by storm. I know you have like 60 tables total, but depending on the number of players you can have multiple starting days, thus leaving tables for cash games, or add tables in the hallway outside the poker room, or in the paddock. Whichever, this prospect would put the PBKC on the map in poker.
Time for New chairs, a few new felts, I know it is Florida, but when the limits go up, people will not like to see the staff in Hawaiian shirts and flip flops like it was mentioned in a previous post, you do not see that in Bobby’s room, keep up the dress code. Think big time, because it is coming.
Get rid of the button blind in the 1 /2 NL game, players do not like it, they don’t, you will rake the game anyway, no use in killing the sheep when you can sheer him many times. In CA when they have a button blind it is 25% of the BB not the entire BB. Think big time class, not cheapos that rake, you are in this for the long haul too along with the players.
I find more players would rather pay by rake than time. It is easier for the player to get up and leave, move to another table and take a break, maybe it is just me.
You can charge more rake on the High limit games to make up for some of these cuts. I never understood why a 1 /2 limit game had a 3 dollar rake and a 20/40 limit game had a 3 dollar rake. If they have more in play you should be able to take more, call it “an ambiance charge”.
I will stop by and see you, I may not want to get that free beer in a plastic bottle, maybe I will sneak in a Coke and get a mixed drink from you.
I would take a bet if you gave me odds that you know who this post is from, he has to be a regular that is not afraid to voice his opinion.
I like coca-cola products better too
06-04-2010
, 08:28 PM
06-05-2010
, 10:53 AM
Sorry for the delay. I had this in a nice excell spreadsheet, just couldnt find a way to attach a file.
I am not a proud man, but be gentle with the lashings you all are going to dish out.
I think we found a good balance that will make most players happy. Most notably is the 2 versions of the 5-10 game.
Limit Hold'em
2-2
2-4
4-8
10-20
20-40
30-60 No Jackpot
NL Hold'em
MIN MAX
1-2 $60 $200
2-5 $200 $500
5-10 $100 $300
5-10 $500 $2000 No Jackpot
10-20 $1000 None No Jackpot Timed Rake
25-50 $2500 None No Jackpot Timed Rake
Stud
1-3 Spread
4-8
10-20
5-25 Spread
PLO
2-5 $200 No Max No Jackpot
Take care.
I am not a proud man, but be gentle with the lashings you all are going to dish out.
I think we found a good balance that will make most players happy. Most notably is the 2 versions of the 5-10 game.
Limit Hold'em
2-2
2-4
4-8
10-20
20-40
30-60 No Jackpot
NL Hold'em
MIN MAX
1-2 $60 $200
2-5 $200 $500
5-10 $100 $300
5-10 $500 $2000 No Jackpot
10-20 $1000 None No Jackpot Timed Rake
25-50 $2500 None No Jackpot Timed Rake
Stud
1-3 Spread
4-8
10-20
5-25 Spread
PLO
2-5 $200 No Max No Jackpot
Take care.
06-05-2010
, 02:37 PM
06-07-2010
, 04:09 PM
06-08-2010
, 02:22 AM
06-09-2010
, 12:31 PM
06-09-2010
, 09:41 PM
06-10-2010
, 01:28 PM
Stopped by Weds afternoon, met Noah, put a face to the name, I for some crazy reason thought he was the guy on the web site holding all the chips 
not him by the way. He seems very excited about the new changes and remodeling the room, glad to see a room putting money back into the room, not just take take take like the Hard Rock, that big screen at the Hard Rock has been broke for over 6 months there and they refuse to fix it. Anyway room was 75% full at 4pm, as I was leaving about 7 people were coming in steady. The players were talking about the new limits, some that never played deep were kind of nervous, they have been hearing all the stories how the Florida players are going to get crushed because all the pros are coming, which is a lie, the pros that come here will not be that many for one and not many will be playing the 1/2 - 2/5 game.
I was sitting at the table and the guy across from me sounded familiar, it was a bartender from Stuart I know close to 20 years ago, haven't seen him for at least 16 years so it was good to see someone from so long ago.
I did see a sign for a tournament for a $50,000 guarantee, I asked the brush who the guy is it was for, it was for a regular player at the PBKC that passed away "Turk" I think I may go by and play in a satellite next week, they were only $30 to get into the $550 buy in at the end of the month.
Anyway had a good time and everyone was friendly.
not him by the way. He seems very excited about the new changes and remodeling the room, glad to see a room putting money back into the room, not just take take take like the Hard Rock, that big screen at the Hard Rock has been broke for over 6 months there and they refuse to fix it. Anyway room was 75% full at 4pm, as I was leaving about 7 people were coming in steady. The players were talking about the new limits, some that never played deep were kind of nervous, they have been hearing all the stories how the Florida players are going to get crushed because all the pros are coming, which is a lie, the pros that come here will not be that many for one and not many will be playing the 1/2 - 2/5 game. I was sitting at the table and the guy across from me sounded familiar, it was a bartender from Stuart I know close to 20 years ago, haven't seen him for at least 16 years so it was good to see someone from so long ago.
I did see a sign for a tournament for a $50,000 guarantee, I asked the brush who the guy is it was for, it was for a regular player at the PBKC that passed away "Turk" I think I may go by and play in a satellite next week, they were only $30 to get into the $550 buy in at the end of the month.
Anyway had a good time and everyone was friendly.
06-10-2010
, 05:57 PM
